Potential 2007 4.8 purchase - but what's the catch?
 

Here are the specs:

2007 (08/2007) 4.8i CPO
39,077 miles
Tech package
Sport package
Premium package
Cold Weather package
Panoramic sunroof
Almost mint condition, according to online photos
No accidents or any negatives (per carfax), 2 owners (1 lease, 1 personal)

Dealer is asking $35,999. KBB CPO value is at $44,500. All the other 2007/2008 4.8's the dealer has are over $40k.

There has to be a catch here. Carfax says it's been on the market at the dealer since October, 2010. If there is no catch, what are the odds I can talk them down to $32-$33k? I have financing secured already so I just need to walk in and write out the check.

Any input is greatly appreciated.

I would pull the service records. A CPO should provide them

So what are you saying? If there are no specific issues serviced, then that doesn't tell me anything. If there are specific and/or substantial service records...it means there are new or serviced parts on the vehicle so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Elaborate?

If there are many repeat visits for the same problem, or many visits without a successful resolution, it tells you a lot.

Examples would be flat batteries, transmission shifting, and so on.

Do you think I can ask whichever sales person I am dealing with for the service records? If they agree to provide them, should I trust that the sales person is providing the complete service records? I've never really dealt with this type of approach and I want to make sure I go in there with the proper ammo. It's always been the numbers game and getting financing. This time I have my financing already so it's all about the price and the vehicle.

Recognize that KBB values are absolutely worthless. KBB trade in is about what you should pay for a dealer non-cpo.

Get a PPI done, even if they just did a CPO. Dealers lie, you have no recourse once your buy it.

Edit: Ask the salesman for the records, he will probably say no. You can ask to see the CPO checklist- THAT they are required to provide to the buyer.

I would be friendly with the sales rep, and ask him to walk over to the service counter with me, and with the key. I would ask the service advisor to scan the key, and hand me the printout. I would also ask for a copy of the CPO checklist.

If a dealer didn't want to provide me with the records, I would thank him for his time, and tell him I was leaving now to go find another dealer. And then I would leave.

I realize that but it's still SOMETHING to go on. Between the KBB values and the fact that the dealer's other similar vehicles are 6k more than this one...it's at least a yellow flag.

Based on that, are you implying that sometimes they skip over items on the checklist or may notate an issue but still pass it for CPO?

The CPO checklist won't have things on it that make it fail a CPO, since they have to forward it to BMW to register the warranty. The importance of having it is later, if something is broken, you can point out that they certified it wasn't broken, so it should be their dime to fix it.

And note that Ard doesn't imply much, he comes right out and says it. ;) Ard is very direct, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt a little more. The common theme with both of us, I think, is that we agree it is your responsibility to check what you are buying, and to document everything to the greatest extent possible.

And if they do give me service records and nothing is a repeat fix?

If you ask for the CPO checklist, they are on notice they cannot fudge anything.

I've advised you to get a PPI which is a pre-purchase inspection- have this done by someone other than the dealer (obviously), unless YOU are capable of doing the inspection (if you were you'd not be posting here).


There can be paint and body work that passes CPO and you will never know about. There can be leaks, maintenance issue that 'somehow were missed'.

If your PPI finds tires or brakes that do not meet the CPO standard, you can demand that be addressed- if you discover this on the way home from the purchase, tough C.

There is no cut and dried anwser on 'how to review service records'...it would take me way more time to create a 'fits every circumstance guideline' than I am inclined to spend. If you cannot see the wisdom to having details on the patterns of service records as part of your due diligence, maybe a new car is a plan, eh?

Any round about cost that a PPI would run me? Would I have to bring the truck to the PP inspector? Would they come to the stealership?

I'm all for doing due diligence. I'm just trying to have the correct ammunition, as I said. I've only ever bought my current X5 and since I'm here asking these questions - you'd be correct if you assumed that purchase didn't end well.

Price sounds right to me - I was looking at 2008 CPO 4.8's back in September with 40k ish miles on them and was looking at 37-39 to buy, so 35 for a 2007 seems right on the money.

That price is not too far off for an '07 but like you said others there are priced more. It might be a lower demand color and they are trying to move it--what color is it ?

I have found it to be very tough to negotiate on the CPO cars. I tried to work one down not so long ago myself and it was tough. In terms of financing BMW has a deal right now if you finance through BMW you can get $1500 off, good financing terms, or extended maintenance to 6 yrs and 100K miles.

If I was going to buy I would of financed through BMW and got the extended service then would of paid the loan off with my credit line immediately. Worth the effort in my opinion.

On another note I can get 2.9% through my credit union for used vehicles which is even better than my house credit line.

PM me the VIN. I can look up service records real quick.

I can't PM yet, I guess. I emailed it to you. Thanks!


Dark Green Metallic and Sand Beige

Sent you info. Looks clean.

Yeah, thanks man. Highly appreciated.

This is the only thing that "scares" me. Any experience guys? Can it be safe to say that whatever this is was fixed?

Edit to add: Also, guys, there is no evidence that there were any software updates done (mainly talking of the one that can help the tranny shifts). Could this be a not-so-good thing?

The one problem sounds like that on my 550i. Every fill up caused a service engine soon light. It was the filler neck EVAP system (an emissions control system), a simple replacement.

Since BMW only updates SW for problem resolution, the previous owner didn't report any other problems than the tranny.

Thanks for your input.

For a "PPI" you find a mechanic who knows the partiocular car. You discuss with them that you want a car inspection to make a decision about buying the car. I typically recommend a body/paint inspection, a complete CPO inspection and a dump of the DME for error codes and over-revs/abuse.

You need to usually drive the car to the mechanic.

Cost is $150 -350, or more- depending. (Off topic, but on point: Recently I am seeing more people doing compression and leak down on the 996TTs as it is getting 'longer in the tooth', and trying to understand over-revs leads to more complete inspections.500-600 just for this part, but they replace plugs while in there.)

The evap code you are concerned with: what was done to fix this? Could just be a gas cap issue... if it is still under warranty, I'd not be concerned with this....

Thanks for your advice ard.

I would stay away from anything that has service records for tranny or electrical repairs (including control modules). If you tip the service advisor they will likely provide you with the service records.

When looking at the CPO checklist I look at things like tire wear, to make sure it's even. If it's not, it could point to alignment/suspension problems. I also look at the heating and cooling results and the voltage readings.

Any insight on this? It seems as though the battery drain problem hit the previous owner early in the truck's life but never again. Is it safe to say the problem was fixed? Is there even a fix?

jeremym,
what year and mileage is your current x5?

2005 - 92,6xx

Is it a 3.0 or 4.4 and are you going to bite it and let them have it for $11K? Seems criminal letting it go for that. I know this is probably wrong to post here but I tried selling my 2000 CLK430 Convertible last summer and got no bites or anything and could not let it go for under $10K which is what it would have to be to move it. I still have it.

I'd let it go for $15-$16k. Nowhere near the $11k he offered though. BMW of Ridgefield, CT offered me $16k for it in August - 4 months ago. No way has 2000 miles made it depreciate by $5k.

3.0 with the following options:

• 0ZCW Cold Weather Package
• 0ZPP Premium Package
• 0ZRC Rear Climate Package
• 01CA CO2 relevant vehicles
• 0205 STEPTRONIC automatic trans.
• 0321 Exterior parts in body color
• 0386 Roof rails
• 04NA Digital compass mirror
• 0430 Auto-dimming mirrors
• 0435 Wood trim
• 0441 Smoker's package
• 0442 Cupholders
• 0459 Power front seats
• 0488 Lumbar support
• 0521 Rain sensor and auto headlight
• 0522 Xenon headlights
• 0524 Adaptive light control
• 0534 Automatic climate control
• 0609 Navigation system
• 0676 Hi-fi sound system
• 0785 White turn-signal lights
• 08SP CO2 control
• 0926 Full-size spare tire

KBB and NADA values for dealer trade in for excellent condition (which mine is) is $15,900. The dealer told me that it was worth $15,900 at 59k miles. I then called him out saying that's not true and he wouldn't budge.

Have you tried listing it on Craigslist or cars.com and I assume you don't have to sell before you get the new one or else you would be at the mercy of the dealership. It is amazing what they get away with and how many people just give in and trade their car in.

I mean...I'm preapproved for $62k. I could theoretically keep my existing loan and then use the preapproved offer for a new X5 and then work on selling my current truck private party. Only issue with that is that I can't roll anything over. I'd have to come up with a couple grand cash to pay off the loan when I sold it private party.

I'm really just fed up with the situation and the no warranty issue is really hanging over my head. It's either I pay for a truck I'm already upside down on with NO warranty and hope nothing happens. Or, I have high minimum payments and put an extra $200-$300 towards principal every month and drive around a new X5 with CPO etc etc.

How long have you had your current X5 and have you spent a good amount of money on repairs and maintenance which is scarring you?

Since August, 2009. I haven't spent a good amount of money on repairs but everyone fears the 100k mile marker with my generation of X5. Also, it's been in for warranty service twice since I've bought it for legit issues. I'm sick of it. Then my warranty ran out at 88k. The car was sold to me as a CPO. I then get the information in the mail a month later from some third party warranty saying it expires at 88k. BMWNA said they couldn't do anything about it. I guess shame on me.

Ugh,
that stinks.

Given you have had it for 16 months I now understand how you are underwater. Good luck with it. At the very least you should take a few pictures and post it in the classifieds section on here.

If it was a true CPO, I'd keep it. It's the warranty thing that scares me. I'd rather pay "upfront" (higher loan payment) for repairs (warranty) than have a lower loan payment and have to come up with potential thousands of dollars to repair a messed up tranny or something else.

I hear you. I was looking at older ones and found a nice 2005 4.8is with 48K miles with no warranty as it was at Carmax. Looked into the company they use for extended warranty and never heard good things. I am in a similar when looking. Either buy a CPO car that has under 50K miles and pay to extend the maintenance to 6 yrs and 100K and let the CPO take care of any covered repairs. Only issue is for a 2007 or 2008 X5 4.8 I am looking at close to $40K which is more than I want to pay.

Seems like the BMW's start to become affordable once they hit that 4 yrs and 50K miles. Most people are unwilling to buy ones of these and be making car payments and on top of that have to dish out big money for maintenance and repairs.

I think that if I can get $12-$13k for my X5 and the guy will drop this 07 to $35-$36k...I'm just going to bite the bullet. I have the pay for the negative equity at some point in my life so, why not do it while driving something way nicer than what I have?

Granted, my payments will be 2x what they are now but it is what it is.

I think the "maintenance bogeyman" drives many to an expensive and needless purchase of the 'maintenance plan'.

Look, you are buying a CPO- which means brake pads MUST be over 50%. Minimum. Ideally they were just changed, so maybe 95%. You may in fact never need a brake job the whole time you own the car.

So what your MP buys you is 3 oil changes, a few filters, and a brake flush. Wiper blades. and maybe a handy from the receptionist.

People seem to just lump "car expenses" into one big bad bin, and just don't do the math... They say, "I want it all covered". Fine, but BMW exploits this with the maintenance plan.

A bmw dealer, and BMW posters here, will scare you with "just a brake job alone could be $2 or 3000". Maybe true but you are getting way screwed- nobody should pay that for brakes.

There is nothing magic about BMW brakes at a BMW dealer.

And I focus my discussion on brakes because besides that, there is NOTHING expensive or extensive in the scheduled maintenance....

FYI

A

Good point. I was bringing this up as BMW is offering a special through January 3rd if you finance through them they will extend the maintenance to that 6 yrs. I would not pay out of pocket for this but just gives someone a good piece of mind.

Great point on the brakes. If to CPO the car it has to have over 50% brake pad life you could just be getting a few oil changes out of that deal.

I must say, I agree. I'm not afraid of maintenance. At all. I'm afraid of a tranny replacement or something of that sort. Trannies are known to go out at 60k miles on my generation of truck. I feel LUCKY to have made it to 92k without issue. I do have a slight stutter when turning and giving it gas though. This was temporarily "cured" when I changed the transfer case fluid. It's back now.

I have no idea what it is. Torque Converter? Who knows. But I do know that I'd much rather not hang on to the truck to see something break.

It could be the short drive shaft and the splines are skipping. Who knows.

I had my CPO '08 with 19K miles in for a software update yesterday--I bought it with 16K miles on it so I wanted them to make sure it had the 2 year brake fluid flush on it (or when the computer tells you). Going through the service history on with my SA they did do that at the dealer in L.A. and also it also had all 4 pads replaced already. Now whether I go 15K miles and need pads again that is the question and I'm sure the rotors will start to go around 30-40K (they did that on my e53). And I believe at some point you just need to replace the rotors when you do the pads as normal mechanical sequence due to the labor involved. Also, the 100K mile spark plug change is covered under the extended maintenance.

So, a lot of unknowns on costs. Most haven't driven their e70s past the 4 year mark (since most lease) and probably none to the 100K miles. I ended up buying the maintenance plan. But I also just used an Indy on my '01 e53 when I had it so I see advantages either way.