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i went and set it to 1 from 16 my USB Cable keeps installing as COM3, if i select to change it to COM1 it says it's in use already, i dont have any other USB devices plugged in except a wireless keyboard so i tried unplugging that even tho its showing as a USB device and not using COM1 :dunno: |
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i just unplugged it and i'm going to un/re install my com ports then plug it back in maybe i'll try a different driver *EDIT* that was a bad idea now INPA won't even see it all, getting API errors might have to uninstall everything and delete all internet software except DATEN Files and BMW Coding tool then use the CD install again |
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emptied MAN file and started NCS DIY from scratch (didn't delete and uninstall everything yet however)
INPA is working again, remade my profile and when i get to clicking F3 an error appears again VIN is faulty coapi-2001: EDIABAS not initiated i see something in my bottom toolbar that says EDIABAS server? i tried leaving INPA open in the background while running NCSexpert too |
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i see something in my bottom toolbar that says EDIABAS server? Yes, I have this too. |
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USB driver or EDIABAS i was using i uninstalled everything, deleted everything except BMW Coding Tool RAR file and my SP-Daten files i'm goin goto run the install strictly from the CD using the CD HOWTO and your note on copying the folders from the CD for step #4 |
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it's probably either the cable/drivers is not installed correctly. Also, after installing everything from the CD, make sure you follow up with the BMW All in One setup from piratebay, that updates EDIABAS to the latest version. |
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*EDIT* this HOWTO says to set it to comport 4 then go into the OBD.ini file in c:\windows and change the comport to comport4 any truth to that? install is complete, wondering if i should run SP-Daten file update via BMW Coding Tool as the guides next steps are to plug into the comp then BMW, then run INPA *EDIT* after all that when connecting to INPA battery on, inginition status off tried to run NCSExpert and hit F3 where i was at previously, new error COAPI-2020: no answer from ECU IFH-0009: ECU not connected or doesn't answer dont know if im going to win this battle i did figure out how to get it on COM1 correctly and changed it over i will breathe for a bit and try after dinner |
make sure you change all the settings to COM1.
so that all the settings match COM1 in all the ini files. Quote:
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my path shows by default.. %SystemRoot%\system32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot%\Sy stem32\Wbem;C:\EDIABAS\Bin that doesn't seem right my obdi.ini shows for the top portion [OBD] Port=Com1 Hardware=STD:OBD then has UNIT A-D with COM Ports1-4 ediabas.ini has Interface = STD:OBD don't remember which other ini i might be missing that needed changing *EDIT* didn't realize there was 2 USB drivers for this a serial port which i knew of already and have set correctly then a USB Serial Converter so i just went and selected that and manually installed drivers from disc for it still not sure about my path setting, i know you add ;C:\EDIABAS\Bin to the end which was already there by default and when i set the one usb driver to com1 it no longer gives me the tab that show to .. b. Ensure “use fifo buffers” option is marked and receive buffers and transmit buffers are both set to 8. Once that is finished press ok and exit all windows.i only see the tab that shows the latency if my device is not assigned to COM1 then i have the received and transmit buffer options but then no latency? *EDIT* last attempt of the night same error so i thought i'd try FRM option after the F3 part and get a new best version error not sure what to do now before i was atleast getting both battery and ignition solid, now i can't even get that?? |
didn't realize there was 2 USB drivers for this
a serial port which i knew of already and have set correctly then a USB Serial Converter so i just went and selected that and manually installed drivers from disc for it Oh yea, now that you mentioned it, there are 2 USB drivers to install, I just used the same drivers from the disc for both USB Serial port and USB Serial Converter. So what you did was right. still not sure about my path setting, i know you add ;C:\EDIABAS\Bin to the end which was already there by default and when i set the one usb driver to com1 it no longer gives me the tab that show to .. b. Ensure “use fifo buffers” option is marked and receive buffers and transmit buffers are [SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri+FPEF]both set to 8. Once that is finished press ok and exit all windows.I don't think this applies to our cable, because these settings were not available. I only changed it Com1 and Latency to 1. i only see the tab that shows the latency if my device is not assigned to COM1 then i have the received and transmit buffer options but then no latency? *EDIT* last attempt of the night same error so i thought i'd try FRM option after the F3 part and get a new best version error ok, I got the same best version error too. It's hard to remember exactly what I did, because I was going back and forth for several nights with the software and google with all the errors. Ok, make sure you didn't get any warnings when you ran OBDsetup.exe. I remember I had to change the value in Windows registry to match the expected value. There was one column with my value and then the expected value. I went into the registry path shown on that black DOS screen and changed it match the expected value. |
just ran obdsetup again
values all match expected side and everything says OK i may just have to try using an actual windows laptop just don't know anyone with winXP, everyone has win 7 and i'm not sure if my disc will work on that |
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i'm going to try a different laptop later today and install the disc on it |
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i've been running the installs and programs as Admininistrator.. is that fine or it doesn't matter? |
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ok
i found out the bmw coding tool (newest version) can code apparently but i haven't found a very good DIY for coding with it yet you use NCSDummy for coding? i was trying to learn that last night, i kinda understand, i think i just have to try it a few times to get the hang of it |
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Check out this awesome google spreadsheet I found, it have codes for everything you ever want to code. hahaha, some motivation for you not to give up. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...CPqY7sEC#gid=0 |
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you suggest i copy over my SP-Daten files and when i finish install i update to them or should the one's on the disc be good enough? |
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start off with the ones on the disc first. if everything runs smoothly, then you can update the sp-daten files later. |
Sounds good
Installs already fighting me During step1 install I have 2 missing .ocx files Going to find them and or download them and re run step1 install *Edit* Added the one ocx file to sustem32 folder Uninstalled everything, Rebooted Started over and it found all ocx files Then I had one warning in obdsetup Changed value of start registry to 1 from 3 Uninstalled everything again, rebooted Re rAn install and so far Im passed obd setup and everything went good so far Waiting for reboot |
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started to run step 2, instaprog.exe and getting an error A LZH Archive not found. 'C:/BMW.LZH' i copied the contents from the disc directly to the USB then copied that to the desktop i'm wondering if i cannot copy directly from the disc to the USB |
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i thought because USBs aren't as restricted as a CD or closed off i wouldn't have too.. will try again *Edit* that worked :thumbup: onto manually installing drivers for the dreaded usb cable *Edit* installed drivers ending with port for both drivers, no other COMs were showing and the cable still installed as COM3, dont understand that but changed it to COM1 to be safe, set latency to 1 checked ediabas.ini to make sure interface says interfeace=std:obd, it does however there are several interface= options, do i have to change them all to std:obd or just make sure the first two are ? also checked obd.ini and it's showing COM1 *Edit* re-ran OBDsetup again as per howto instructions.. it shows read value 'TAG' failed ! and i actually believe it had this message earlier and i may have missed, not sure where in the registry to fix that? *Edit* Checked my registry and I was missing a Tag dword registry Added a new one named it Tag Ran obd setup again and it said the tag value of 0 needed to be 1 Went and registry changed that and re ran obd setup Everything is OK Restarting *Edit* a little bit of an update plugged cable into labtop (LED is on) then obd port the put pushed keyfob into slot (did not turn on) ran INPAload and it showed battery black dot and ignition white dot? realized i forgot to edit PATH in environment variables so i added the ending needed re ran INPAload and still the same thing bottom of INPA says running in green havent tried ncsexpert yet either, just figured it wont work do i need to run the d-can.exe? do i need to have the vehicle actually turned right on and running? just watched the below videos BMW's INPA K+CAN setup instruction part one.wmv - YouTube BMW's INPA K+CAN setup instruction part two.wmv - YouTube i did notice he dragged the USB driver folder over to the C:\ also noticed he manually installed from there but choose the top option for manually installing, i choose the one below that which makes you pick between two drivers i noticed he selected COM2 instead of 1 and didn't goto the PATH area or check INPA or OBD files after to confirm can i go back and try updating drivers the way he did then jump back to INPA and try again or do i have to re do the second half of the install? *Edit* i tried installing drivers as like shown in youtube, showing ignition off tried installing driver as com2, no go ran obdsetup everything still fine forgot to change obd.ini to com2, will try that if that doesn't work may have to try piratebay copy since i know now i missed a few things on it after doing this so many times, i was able to even get both black dots in INPA during that install which i can't seem to do here :( |
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anyone can code in LA? would be interest it... otherwise, I'm gonna learn the stuff and be the first one try to code and make some money on the side...:nanana: |
got the coding bug and started coding my 2008 E70
Double blink hazard. trunk open/close side light delete windows/sunroof up with key/CA I-drive disclaimer delete but before I code the regular stuff I was searching for the codes for tripple blink turn signal, which I did'nt seem to find, forgive me if I missed it but can someone let me know what it is or where I can find it? |
I don't think there is a triple blink signal option.
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WARNBLINKER is for the hazard lights, on E53 only option is "doppelimpuls" for double blink, as far as I know its same for E70.
three touch blink for changing lanes? Awesome feature you E70 guys get, we don't have it on E53 (I had it on my old VW though) |
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Replaced my battery and went to register it with ISTA, Attachment 60225Attachment 60226Attachment 60227Attachment 60228Attachment 60229Attachment 60230ended up recoding/programming my car with updated software..
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Can anyone link me the right cable to buy? thx.
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Xoutpost.com - Search Thread |
Anyone try coding with windows 8/pro OS yet?
I'm finally switching back to windows and may give it another shot since it's been some time from my last failure |
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Hi all have anyone here coded the rear camera,side cameras and top view camera to work whilst in motion.
I've got the VIM working fine,the F series guys have all the above cameras working in motion surely the principles are similar. Any ideas or how would be greatly appreciated. bmwpower. |
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Where is the cable, I cant find it on ebay. Thanks |
I've got one of the cables from EBay, used it successfully to code my 2013 X5. 50$ plus shipping via paypal. PM if interested.
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pm sent |
Hello guys,
Just got a 2013 X5 35i and want to code some stuff, have been looking around and there is just so much stuff for so many different cars. I already bought a cable and waiting for that to come in... I was wondering if any one would be able to point me to a full package of the things I need and maybe step by step for E70 ? Or if some one can do remote coding with me that would be great as well. Thanks in advance !!!! |
Ordered my cable!
Time to play soon, I will report back. Looking to pull a code first and code later, stupid CEL wont go off. |
Anyone know where the value is for Instant MPG? It's not present in my KOMBI module, 2008 4.8i
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Revising an older post..'
I'm in NJ. I don't have the time or the skill to do this myself, and my needs are simple on my 11 E70 Auto close the mirrors when the keyfob is out, close the trunk from the fob, maybe increase directions blinks from 3-5.. that's pretty much it. If anyone in the NY tri-state area is successful with this I am happy to come to you. Thanks ed in Metuchen |
Reach out to okee [email protected]
He can do it remotely once he ships you a cable |
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Certainly a good plan "B", but i am really hoping to find someone local so I can watch and learn. But your suggestion is a good one to know Thanks Ed |
coding in St Louis
anyone available to code a 2007 X5 (e70) with the usual: blinkers in heads-up display, disclaimers removed for both idrive boot-up & backup, pwr folding mirrors on arm & disarm from remote, open/close windows & sunroof w remote, rear fog lights on in tandem with brake lights, speed shown in dashboard, instant gas mileage...thx!
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Contact [email protected] lots of us have used his services here. He's name is Okke . Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Just saw your reply. I am semi-retired so I can meet you nearly anytime (AM or PM). Let me know what works for you as I would love to take you up on your offer. ed in Metuchen. |
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Of course, Thursday I have an appointment in NYC I can't move. Can we pick another day ? Ed |
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I REALLY appreciate your help today. Maybe we'll try for next Monday if that works for you.. Thanks again ed |
Can anyone give me a link or copy and paste a list of mods that can be coded?
E90 Coding options list - NCS-Expert.com NCS-Expert.com this excel file in the 3rd page shows a list of things that can be coded and how, just wanted to get an idea if there is anything similar for the E70. I am picking a 11 TD today and would like to install the proper software and use the k-can/bus cable I use for my E90 to code a few things in my E70. |
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Just a heads up to any Canadians looking to buy a cable from ebay:
I had a not so good experience with seller "koolcanuck" Here are some of the negative reviews all with the same themes (no communication or product not working.) I had problems with getting my item shipped to my address (my mistake, returned to sender.) This seller made little to no effort to communicate or respond to emails at any stage in the sales process. I resorted to a Paypal dispute once I saw that the item been successfully returned to the seller and I still had no response. The tracking info was able to prove my case and I got a full refund because of Paypal, not the sellers own choice. |
I have a 2009 X5, what's annoying me is the AC automatically get turned on every time I start the car. Can this be coded to not automatically turning on?
For bluetooth, it's only for the phone call and not working for music play. Can this be coded or is it limited by its hardware? Thanks |
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I use a little Apple 30-pin to Bluetooth adapter to pair my Android phone with. Steering wheel controls do not work with it, but at least it gets music to the car. |
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- Yes the AC option is configurable. - Bluetooth depends on hardware. And if the car was not equipped with the newer idrive 2009+ then coding will do nothing. |
I am trying to use a similar/same cable with INPA on my 2011 E70 with no luck at pulling the VIN or talking to any modules. I get the two black circles, but that is about it. I have read a bunch about pins 7 and 8... For a 2011 should I de-solder pin 8? I have read that ENET is now on pin 8...
I should probably just pony up for the cable from one-stop-electronics, but have to wait for the cable to show up and I am a very impatient person, since I have a soldering iron and am not afraid to use it. :-) |
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As you suspected..No joy even with disconnecting pin 8. Probably only usable on older cars. Cost of experience...$20. :-) I will keep it around as I am shopping for an 2006 E46 convertible.
I have this cable in my shopping cart: Car Diagnostic :: By Product Type :: INPA & Ediabas :: BMW INPA / Ediabas K+DCAN USB Interface - one-stop-electronics.com But I suspect shipping time is like 2 weeks...ugh, that is a long time! ;-) Any reputable DCAN cables available from a US seller? (As I understand it, I need the DCAN for the '11 X5) Maybe I should just order the cable, and get to work replacing the cam in my TDI....but coding is so much more fun, and a LOT cleaner. |
Can someone point me where I can get the latest daten files for a 2010 E70?
Btw, are the daten files for an E90 and E70 the same? |
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Torrent Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Guys,
I attempted to update the E70 daten files using the BMW Coding Tool 2.5.0. I updated the SP-daten fine but when i attempted to update the WinKFP files i got the following error message. I attempted to search for the correct folder but cant seem to find it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...pslltfsqcj.jpg http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...psr43rkv31.jpg |
Is there a cheap Bluetooth adapter that can be used for coding?
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Did it work well for you?
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Got my FSC code for NA 2015.1 map update, took some research on other forums but finally figured out how to configure FSC generator and the other software needed, I will be installing my maps tomorrow.
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Wish they would update the coding so u didn't have to install it on a winxp machine.. Modernize it all finally and make it more reliable.. Selling my e70 and hoping to grab an 09 M6 so I know I'll still have to do some coding in the future
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I use win 8 for my coding. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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All went well :)Attachment 65594Attachment 65595Attachment 65596Attachment 65597Attachment 65598Attachment 65599 Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Hi, I scooted through this thread so I apologise if this has been discussed.
When I initially run INPA, I see no option for E70. Do I have an old copy? It is version 5.0.1 I get the two black circles but not sure what to do here. Thanks guys. |
Never mind, I figured it out. Edit the INPA.INI file and add E70.
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daten files
hi im newbie at coding I would like to know how you guys update your daten files can you point me to video or how to"s
thanks |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A74l4-1IO_k |
Coding in South Florida. Hit me up if interested.
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Seems like all of the ebay links to the cable on the first page are no longer active/available. Does anyone have a current link?
Actually, seems like everyone's converting to the BMWhat app now? -Don |
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread. I've been able to code many things in my 2011, but blinkers(turn signals) in the HUD has eluded me. I coded 1 setting each in HUD and CIC to Aktiv, but I am not they are not showing up on the windshield(yes I have a HUD). I know I must be missing something. Can anyone help?
These may be NCSDUMMY translations CIC HUD_TurnSignal = aktiv ( enabled ) HUD Blinker - Turn Signal = aktiv ( enabled ) |
This does not work on the E70
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I recently installed a new frm3 and programmed it. Now I get an error message saying that the license plate lights are out and so are the angel eyes.
Does anybody know how to code the bulb checks for these? |
Successfully coded my E70
Just updated my map with the new update, I generated a "lifetime code" by editing the lookup.xml file, it worked for this update but I will have to wait to know if it is indeed as the name digested.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...603da4646f.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...5c99f6c350.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...3e4d91dc74.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...173b016e0c.jpg Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
can you share or send me the lookup file you used. I already upgraded mine to 2015-2 but it would be better to have the lifetime instead of generating a new fsc code everytime I upgrade my map :thumbup:
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Successfully coded my E70
You just Change the code to "0x2D 00FF instead of 0008,
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkhttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04...2639001a84.jpg |
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I cant even get started!
I get so made and all I want are some black dots lol Does anyone have current software that will work on an E70 than can be emailed or linked? The disc that came with my cable has a bad file and if frustrating me. |
Are you using BMW standard tools? What cable?
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I am using the standard Chinese clear cable and INPA is what the CD says.
About a year ago I had it sort of connect then I lost patience with the win 7 tablet I was using and now I have a win 7 64 computer in the garage and the X5 needs a battery so it is time to learn how to do this, I need to register the battery and code the CDN speedo I put in so it reads right. Any help would be very helpful. |
Did you install the drivers for the cable?
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There was a tool a while back to retrieve the short 1B file. Check the coding forum
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I've read that before, but was wondering if he used smthg else.
Anyway, with a $6 usb/enet adapter I was able retrieve it and update with "lifetime" code. |
Is hardware/software for LCI tail lights same as these other codings?
I have a 2009 X5 35d. Not sure of the build date.
I put in newer LCI tail lights and want to code the brake light out message. Will the cable everyone is using here, INPA/Ediabas K+D-CAN USB Interface Diagnostic Cable Tool SSS NCS EXPERT For BMW, with cd work for the tail lights as well as the momentary turn signal and rear gate close with fob? The brake light code is the highest priority but the others would be nice too. |
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All I want is my 1B file. |
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I joined this site but never received an admin email, so to date I don't have privileges to D/L or post...
Is this the norm...? |
Thanks to the guys posting on this forum I have now successfully coded my 2007 E70:
Driver seat belt chime Double blink hazards Full wiper cycle Auto key eject Folding mirrors Digital speed (although inaccurate) Cannot get the fogs on with headlights or the trunk to unlock from key fob, any ideas anyone? |
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I was trying to do with tool like FSC Generator but it not connecting to my car. I have regular cable though, not ENET one. I've read that this is for F series only, do I need to get ENET as well? Thanks for any help! |
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I used FSC generator but with my icom, the regular cable don't work, the ENET cable is what you want Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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If you are handy you can make it, the diagram is online Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Yea, i saw all those posts and I definitely can do that but having no free time at all I'd rather spend it on something else :) They are available for $20 and parts will be little less plus time to get them together...
I know how it feels when you do it yourself but I have that feeling when I can do something to my car myself as well. Thank! |
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Ok I understand Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Successfully coded my E70
https://vimeo.com/136829489
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...fc41209785.jpg http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...9f2d120547.jpg http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08...925c8795d0.jpg Lifetime code is working. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
Cool, waiting my cable to play with this as well. Have all soft ready and waiting...
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Great let us know how it goes
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Anyone who does coding in the Seattle/Tacoma area?
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Pls, could you give us the lookup file?? I don't undesrtand how can I change the code you are telling. I need the lifetime code for EUROPE WEST PREMIUM for CIC. Thank you and kind regards from Spain. ;) |
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;) |
HKL coding
anyone has any idea why i cannot code HKL do this below, as soon as i do write (SG_Codrien) i get an error..
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error below http://img903.imageshack.us/img903/3001/oAxxC6.png |
Try it with the ignition on (car not running though)
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only fails in HKL. |
also anyone know the value on what to change in triple blink? im assuming its in "FRM" module and i want to change it from 3 (value right now set in i drive) to at least 5 or 6.
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Key on, engine off as mentioned do not put your foot on the brake when you push the start button.
Although I had thought about wanting to start the engine without the brake on, I sometimes think is may be better to have the brake required to start the engine for easy Key on, engine off situations. I guess if there was a delay on pushing the start button before the engine cranked, this may be a useful way to start without applying the brake, but this may confuse some people that would need to drive the car that expect the engine to immediately crank. I guess the best case situation would be foot on the brake, push the start button as normal with the additional option of no foot on the brake to start the engine with a 2-3 second delay while pushing the start button. |
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After a few years and some help of members, I was finally able to code my car. Initially, I used the Carly app for some coding, but realized that Carly doesn't do everything so I bought a proper cable and hunted down the files. Took a few days and some frustration, but was finally able to get it to work!
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I read on the coding forums that some Exx cars have CIC connected to the OBC port for ENET connectivity. Is this true for late E70s? If not looks like I'll have to buy a USB Ethernet adapter for 1B file extraction (purpose of generating an FSC code).
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Cars that were equipped with CIC should have enet pinouts, but if you did a retro, you will need to add those. |
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So if I have an ENET cable I can just plug it in, set my laptop IP address to 160.48.199.98/255.255.255.128 and then FTP to CIC on 160.48.199.99? I ask because if this is the case I will take apart and old ODB cable and make myself an ENET cable. If not then I'll order a supported USB network adapter to plug in the glovebox. My CIC is factory fitted. Some people suggest an ENET cable is only useful for F-series cars. |
What year is your car, it should work if its factory equipped.
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Built Nov 2012.
I'm going to pull apart an old OBD cable and make an ENET cable so I can try it. Do I understand correctly that I don't need to run EDIBAS and all of that stuff. Perhaps a DHCP server but that's all? |
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Hello, i buyed the cic controller for idrive professional, i modified the ZBE line but won't work, i heard that i have to change the vehicle order with year that appeard cic idrive, 09.2009, anyone coded succesful?
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Did this for my DRLs when I had the E70. Can't attach instructions but you can easily find on the web. Search:
"BMW NCS Expert Tools NCS Expert - Changing the Vehicle Order" Phys |
I understand but i want to find if any member done this to work cic controller on ccc idrive
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I found this on Youtube. Going to buy it and code my car myself. Good to have if I decide to remove some changes I made and was not totally happy with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E80Q-8kbqg :thumbup: |
Ok i will try this, and for M-hud ihave to change nettodat file? for rpm to work ?
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Can somebody tell me how their auto unlock when the key is ejected functions? I want key fob set to one press unlock = driver's door, and eject key from ignition = unlock all doors.
I have my non-comfort access 2011 X6 coded so that KOMFORT_EJECT is active, and ER_KEYOUT_AUTOVR is also active. My key fob is set to one press unlock = driver's door. When I turn off the car and eject the key fob, only the driver's door unlocks. Setting the key fob for one press unlock = all doors, then all doors unlock when I eject the key. Is this a logic function of the car that only allows those two scenarios to happen? |
Well anyone in Maryland near DC coding? Have not had a chance to get one yet so I hope to find someone close by. Heck I will be up for a short road trip also!
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Anyone in the Virginia, Maryland, DC Area -- I can code your E70 for a nominal fee. Feel free to DM me.
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Can't believe this thread is still going :D
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:rofl::rofl: See what you started? LOL |
I just got started coding my new to me E70. Hoping to find some clues in this age old thread to make some changes that are difficult to find for non German speaking folk.
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Realizing this is two years old, you might still have e70 still looking to solve this. I would prob like to have driver door auto unlock with key eject but my key fob is programmed to unlock all doors. I suspect the solution is to use the default unlock to match the key eject desire (unlock all doors in your case) then set the key fob desired outcome to that specific key. On my e53 I programmed my fob to unlock all doors but the door cylinder to only unlock the driver door. That way I had a choice when coming to the car to reduce wear on the $235@ door lock actuators that were starting to fail. |
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I was also unsuccessful coding hatch closing from the interior button. I think there are some differences with the X6 and X5 that just don't allow certain features to work I guess. |
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