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  #111  
Old 07-01-2010, 07:47 PM
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how are these tires in snow and rain?
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  #112  
Old 07-01-2010, 11:48 PM
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Didn't miss it. PM sent.

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Originally Posted by MidwestE53 View Post
Is the group buy over?
Did I miss it? I'm new to the forum and I'm in need of some great tires as well as rims.

Thank you all
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  #113  
Old 07-01-2010, 11:50 PM
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Added you to the list and sent you a PM.

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Originally Posted by juppalgae View Post
i'm in for 20 inch. but gotta get the new wheels first.
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  #114  
Old 07-01-2010, 11:50 PM
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Amazing in the rain, but not for the snow at all.

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Originally Posted by juppalgae View Post
how are these tires in snow and rain?
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  #115  
Old 07-02-2010, 01:04 AM
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Picking up the new ride this Saturday Don't really remember how the stock 19' are but seen some 20' that are really amazing and this deal is to good to pass on.

I guess shipping to Canada or at least the border should not be a problem.

FYI Vredestein tires is a very reputable well known outlet. And remember, If it ain't Dutch it ain't much!!
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  #116  
Old 07-02-2010, 02:00 AM
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Not sure about your note, do you want me to add you to the group buy? Shipping to Canada is a fortune so unless you can get them to somewhere in the states I'd honestly say forget it.

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Originally Posted by rrental View Post
Picking up the new ride this Saturday Don't really remember how the stock 19' are but seen some 20' that are really amazing and this deal is to good to pass on.

I guess shipping to Canada or at least the border should not be a problem.

FYI Vredestein tires is a very reputable well known outlet. And remember, If it ain't Dutch it ain't much!!
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  #117  
Old 07-02-2010, 11:16 AM
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Thanks Poppa, this makes better sense to me now. Does anyone know if you can rotate these Vredesteins? My understanding is that you could rotate from back to front but not side to side. I know on Diamaris, once you run then a certain direction (like on the left or right) then they have to run on that same side. Switching them to the other sided will compromise the integrity of the tire. Since I run a staggard set up on my 4.6 I am assuming that I will not be able to rotate the Vredesteins from side to side. Anyone??

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Originally Posted by TwinsPoppa View Post
The best way I can explain it is its both directional and non-directional (mostly non-directional).

The tires are directional in that the groove that goes the whole circumference of the tire is always installed on the inner side. So, they are treated directionally for installation.

However, the tread design/pattern was designed to be effective in either direction.

So, in their own words:

"Thanks to this ingenious design, the Ultrac Sessanta is asymmetrical but its performance is not directional. This makes the tyre exceptionally quiet"

I think most people would agree that they are not really directional - since they can rotate effectively in either direction.
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  #118  
Old 07-02-2010, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taosx5 View Post
Thanks Poppa, this makes better sense to me now. Does anyone know if you can rotate these Vredesteins? My understanding is that you could rotate from back to front but not side to side. I know on Diamaris, once you run then a certain direction (like on the left or right) then they have to run on that same side. Switching them to the other sided will compromise the integrity of the tire. Since I run a staggard set up on my 4.6 I am assuming that I will not be able to rotate the Vredesteins from side to side. Anyone??
I don't understand. What benefit are you looking for in switching sides on your staggered setup?

Fronts will have the outside worn more from turning. If you try to swap sides then the outer edge will still be on the outer edge - only rotating the opposite direction.

Rears would be the same situation. No benefit that I can see.

Obviously you don't want to swap front to back. So, again, maybe you can clarify exactly what you're trying to achieve.
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  #119  
Old 07-02-2010, 02:03 PM
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I am a little confused by your questions as well and although I think Twinspoppa explained it quite well (and I agree with him) let me try to explain it a little further in a bit more detail...

1. BMW does not recommend rotating tires. Just an FYI, and one with which I completely agree.

2. For staggered 19" or 20" tires, you can forget swapping tires on the same side front to back. This should be obvious.

3. Because the inner side of each Vredestein tire must have the longitudinal groove, meaning each tire has a dedicated inner side and dedicated outer side (in other words the tires are asymmetric) (see drawing A; LI = Left Inside, LO = Left Outside, RI = Right Inside, RO = Right Outside) you cannot dismount a left front tire from it's rim and install it on the front right rim with its outer side now on the inside and its inner side now on the outside. (see drawing B). If the tires were symmetric then you could do this, but they are not.

4. Again, because the inner side of each tire must have the longitudinal groove, swapping tires left to right and right to left would result in the proper orientation relative to outer and inner edges, however the direction of rotation would be the opposite. Tires that were traveling in the forward direction are now traveling in the backward direction. (see drawing C) This is considered okay by Vredestein since the tires are non-directional.

However, you need to understand a few things. Rotating tires in this manner will NOT extend their life from wear due to camber, toe-in, toe-out, issues, etc. Again, because they are asymmetric tires, inner edge wear will always be inner edge wear just like outer edge wear will always be outer edge wear. However, wear caused by braking and acceleration forces can be compensated for by this type of rotation and can extend the life of the tires. Officially Vredestein recommends if you are going to rotate them, to do so every 7,500 - 10,000 miles.

(FYI: If you watch the youtube video that is linked in the first post of this thread, at 6:24 into the film the narrator specifically states the tires are asymmetrical but non-directional)

Now, for many the question comes down to economics and time. Is the extra mileage that you might get out of rotating the tires as caused by acceleration and braking more than the cost to take the car to the tire shop and pay to have each tire rotated and rebalanced? If your tire shop does it for free then maybe so if you have the time. If not free then I'd say the decision to do it is a little harder to make. It also depends on how you drive, quite obviously. If you accelerate and brake like a maniac, the wear due to those forces will be a lot different as compared to the person driving their kids to school and back at a leisurely pace. Ultimately the decision is yours to make.

My personal suggestion is to:

#1. Buy the tires. It's the deal of the century, especially on a set of 20"'s.

#2. Go to a dealer or indy and have your suspension looked over to make sure nothing needs to be repaired or replaced. If you discover this later, you'll likely need to get the alignment done again.

#3. Locate a tire installation shop that uses the same Hunter tire mounting equipment that BMW uses, I believe the Hunter TC3500 or better. If you have super expensive rims and don't want them scratched up then I suggest you seek out a place that also has the Hunter Auto34 system which is specially designed not to scratch or mar rims.

However, more importantly, find a shop that uses the same Hunter tire balancing equipment that BMW uses (GSP97BMW Road Force Measurement System with StraightTrak LFM, which is the OEM version of the GSP9700 Wheel Vibration Control System).
GSP97BMW Road Force Measurement® System
You can locate a shop with this tool:
Hunter GSP9700 Wheel Vibration Control System
Call them up and make sure they have the equipment, just to be safe. Schedule an installation and get it done. Also start making arrangements for alignment. As a rule, full alignment should be done whenever you are installing a full set of brand new tires.

#4. Immediately go to your BMW dealer and have a 4 wheel alignment done. You can of course have this done at a tire shop. If so, I would suggest again that you make sure they use the same Hunter equipment BMW uses (I believe it's the Hunter KDS II Wheel Alignment System) and that you are comfortable with their policies should the alignment not turn out okay. Personally I've had too many bad experiences with tire shop alignment to waste time with anyone other than the BMW dealer for this work. To me the extra money the dealer charges over a tire shop is well worth it.

#5. IMHO don't bother with rotation, per BMW's advice, and just replace the tires when sufficiently worn.
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Last edited by X5 Meister; 07-13-2010 at 05:40 PM.
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  #120  
Old 07-02-2010, 02:19 PM
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Not sure about your note, do you want me to add you to the group buy? Shipping to Canada is a fortune so unless you can get them to somewhere in the states I'd honestly say forget it.
Will see if I can arrange pu from the border. Give me a few days and I will let you know.
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