1st service for X5M

[E53is]

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by JCL

Many dealers will do it at the first anniversary, but not all according to other posters.

If you have done 15,000 miles in one year a lot of it was likely on the highway anyway, which is a lot easier than city driving.

Still waiting to see a report of a failed engine caused by following the manufacturer's maintenance procedures. They have had this interval since 1999, and oils have improved in that time as well.

Yeah, but they were still doing 1,200 mile break in oil changes on all M cars up to the e90 M3 and even then apparently some of those owners were able to talk their dealers into performaing this service for free as well.

The 1,200 mile break in oil service is also recommended by BMWCCA's lead technical writer who says he has personally seen many new modern BMW's engine and drive line oils literally full of metals at 1,200 miles.

I have to say that if I spent as much on a car as an X5M costs, I would no doubt cough up the extra change required to do an early break in oil change service if the dealer won't.

[GAM3OVR]

Don't follow the oil change instructions by BMW. My engine on my M3 almost seized going to NYC at around 11k miles. On Mobile 1 Synthetic, the most I'd go is 6-7K. The 15K oil change is just so BMW doesn't pay the cost for frequent changes since they will be covering it. Regardless of what oil and how thick, after 6-7K driving, it is fully broken down and is as shallow as water. Spend the $100 and change the oil for self once at 6K, and once with BMW at 15K.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by GAM3OVR

Don't follow the oil change instructions by BMW. My engine on my M3 almost seized going to NYC at around 11k miles. On Mobile 1 Synthetic, the most I'd go is 6-7K. The 15K oil change is just so BMW doesn't pay the cost for frequent changes since they will be covering it. Regardless of what oil and how thick, after 6-7K driving, it is fully broken down and is as shallow as water. Spend the $100 and change the oil for self once at 6K, and once with BMW at 15K.

Interesting. My BMW engines have never almost seized, despite recommended oil and filter change intervals. Oil looks fine at the change interval, although you can't tell much from a visual. Oil test results from other engines show good oil quality at the recommended change interval, viscosity in spec, additive package still working. Maybe you were not using the recommended oil, or using a non-BMW filter, or driving it in severe service conditions? M engines certainly have the ability to stress the oil more than other BMW engines.

BMW doesn't pay for oil changes, you do. You just pay in advance if you have a maintenance plan.

You might want to check this thread out. Includes pictures of a 100,000 mile engine after oil changes per manufacturer's recommendations. It looked pretty good.

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...intervals.html

[StumpyPete]

Oil changes are not included in uk and the service interval is still 15k so to say it is because BMW don't want to pay is irrelevant. The 15k interval is based on BMW research, if leaving it to 15k had any detrimental effect it would push up warranty costs and therefore cost to BMW - it isn't in their interest to up the interval without understanding the potential cost.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by StumpyPete

Oil changes are not included in uk and the service interval is still 15k so to say it is because BMW don't want to pay is irrelevant. The 15k interval is based on BMW research, if leaving it to 15k had any detrimental effect it would push up warranty costs and therefore cost to BMW - it isn't in their interest to up the interval without understanding the potential cost.

In North America, BMW also hold almost all the lease residual values, another risk for higher mileage vehicles.

But be careful, you are ruining the conspiracy theory

[FSETH]

Yes, but BMW doesn't set these intervals based solely on what is best for the longevity of the car. It is a combination things. Plus, what does a factory warranty cover? 50-100K? If I paid as much as an X5/6 M costs and I planned on owning the car for an extended period of time (especially ouside of warranty coverage), it would make me feel much better to have a break in oil service performed. Once again, the head technical writer for the BMWCCA says he has personally seen driveline oils full of metal at as low as 1,200 miles in modern BMW's.

[MRV99]

I would not trust the bmw oil intervals. Before BMW paid for the maintenance, you have a much more strict fluid changes. Almost every expert will say that the intervals are much too long. Personally I get my 545 changed every 7K so I was paying for every other one. I just ordered a X5-50 and i am going to get the oil changed at 1k and then at 7k and then the 15k which bmw will pick up. You can get your oil changed when every you want. Just tell your SA that you want to pay for an oil change and to not reset the counter. That simple. I know oils are much better now then the past but you have to realize your oil is also running through the turbos and those get HOT. You paid almost 100k for your car so spending a $1000 on extra fluid changes is not going to hurt your wallet and it will give you a piece of mind. I am shocked that BMW did away with the 1k fluid change on //M cars

[JCL]

Originally Posted by MRV99

I would not trust the BMW oil intervals. Before BMW paid for the maintenance, you have a much more strict fluid changes.

That is an urban myth IMO. Longer maintenance intervals started in 1992 for BMW. They went to 15,000 miles in 1998. (so they have 13 years of experience at this interval). The US got prepaid maintenance different years for different models, reaching 4 years (to match the warranty) in 2003, eleven years after the intervals were increased. To this day, most countries don't have maintenance included, and yet they have the same recommended service intervals. See StumpyPete's post #15, above.

No problem if you want to change the oil more frequently on your own dime, but don't suggest it is a conspiracy, not when these intervals have been so successful.

Side note: There are rumours about new 60,000 km oil change intervals, and there are pictures floating around of new composite oil pans with built-in life-time filters. It is going to be interesting to see the reaction when manufacturers start to adopt that technology.

[MRV99]

Urban Myth? I never said there was a conspiracy but there are a number of things which point to the longer intervals on all fluids and the issues which arise due to the extended intervals.

The governments are pushing for less waste out of Auto companies so the pressure the amount petro's out of cars are influencing manufactures to extend the fluid changes. So like most manufactures, BMW is conforming.

I will ask you this. What is BMW's definition of "Lifetime Fluid"? It is usually till a part fails or 100,001 miles. Why would BMW put a fail or 100,001 mileage on the fluid....oh wait that is the longest warranty period that you can get from the BMW. Ask a dealer to change your trans fluid in your 535 at 30k miles. They will tell you don't do it. Why... If they did then you would have to pay for a new trans pan because they are made of plastic and once removed it will never fit properly again and the filter is built into the pan. Hey more money for the dealer and you know dealers don't like making money. Why would they tell you No? Even if they do change the fluid, why do some dealers ask for you to sign a waver releasing them from liability if you have a transmission issue? Tell me why new fluid and filter would not be better for a transmission than an old filter and fluid? What is more profitable for the company, new transmission or a fluid change?

3) I know a former president of a very large manufacturing company which produced appliances. This company was a house hold name and still is but is no longer a stand alone company because it was purchased by a bigger company. We were playing golf one time and he made a candid comment which I am sure you can understand.... "Why build something which will last 20 years or more when you can build something which will last 10 and the consumer will pay the same price and would have to buy twice as many." As you know there are stock holders behind all decision. If a persons a car that could last 150k-200k, then maybe they will not want to get a new one. If the car only last 100k then you will purchase more cars increasing the profit of that company. I know this sounds like a conspiracy but can you explain why this is a fact? Globalization of everything has cheapen the quality of the products and they do not last. BMW's used to be bullet prof. I own two BMW's currently and believe me, I know almost every employee at the dealership. Not because I love to meet people but because I have been there a hell of a lot of times because of part failure.

4) I am no expert but I have build a few cars(motors, trans, diffs) and I can only speak from experience. Yes they were not German cars but the internal combustion engine has worked off the same principals since its inception. The parts can be build with much greater tolerances now then in the past but any moving part will experience some type of wear. So in a transmission, gears touch each other. If they are not 100% perfectly matched there will be wear between the two surfaces which meet. There will be with 99.9% certainty wear patterns where the gears touch, which happens in every transmission. What happens to the metal. Filters only work so well and when you never change them or extend the intervals between changes, they become less effective. All Fluids break down through heat cycles and contaminates(moisture, dirt and standard fluid breakdown). The way the std person in the urban environment drives their car causes the fluids to accumulate moisture and that alone effects the fluid. Most drives do not even run these cars at high RPM's which these are designed for. Ask a BMW expert and they will tell you the same. The oiling systems on these cars need high RPM to "clean them out". Can you explain the high amount of sludge which is common on the std BMW? Is this from longer oil changes or...... How does this sludge form and why has it become more a common occurrence in modern BMW's


I could go on longer but I may sound like a bonafied conspiracy theorist.

By the way, have you watched your oil temp in your 535 when you drive it hard... Do you know how hot a turbo gets and they share the same oil. 250 degree temps are not good for the oil.