Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > BMW SAV Forums > X3 (E83) Forum
Fluid Motor Union
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-04-2006, 08:38 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 315
White05X3 is on a distinguished road
Thumbs up Track video From WSIR

First of all, I wanted to tell R6Girl that it was nice meeting you! I hope you had a great time and got all the dust washed off those beautiful wheels! That carbon black/terracota combination is striking!

So I spent the last 2 days attending the BMW CCA LA Chapter driver's school at Willow Springs International Raceway (WSIR). Now I know why they call it the fastest track in the west... hold c#*p that track is fast!!!!

WSIR is basically 9 turns with many elevation and camber changes. There is NO safe place to run off. Ordinarily that would not be such a big deal, but the speeds are SO high!!! For example, the entry into turn 8 was at about 100-105. After holding that speed around a long sweeping right for a few breaths, it is time to break hard to make a fast right through turn 9 and onto the front straight. Get the exit of turn 9 wrong, and your car meets the front of pit wall... At the end of the front straight I was hitting 115, then braking down to 80 for my turn in to turn 1. hard on the throttle to the rev limiter in 3rd gear. A quick stab of the brakes to turn in to turn 2, which is a LONG sweeping uphill right hander. The technique through this corner was to basically stay wide, holding the car right on the edge of adhesion. Once you can see the apex, nail the throttle and let the car push out to the exit. At this point, I am at the rev limiter in 3rd. Brake hard to make the very tight left UP HILL to turn 3, then full throttle to turn 4. Turns 3, 4 and 5 are part of a complex called the omega and involve a ton of elevation change. A quick stab of the brakes to make the rear end rotate a little to turn in to 4, then track left down the hill. At the bottom, hard braking and turn left into turn 5. Max throttle once you get the front turned. The next corner is pretty straignt, but crests a hill while turning. In the X3 it was full throttle all the way, grabbing 4th right after the car settled back down. Then back into turn 8 at 100+...

I was in a group of VERY fast guys in very fast cars. Pretty much everybody passed me but hey... I was in a SAV... The car was very impressive and never put a foot wrong. The DSC was on all weekend and never intervened even once. While my front left tire has seen better days in all the car performed flawlessly. I am completely thrilled with how it did. After this experience I would have no reservation about taking the X3 to the track again.

I have posted some short clips from inside the car at

http://randall-harris.com/wsir.html

Thanks for reading my post!
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #2  
Old 06-04-2006, 08:58 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NJ
Posts: 480
Chip is on a distinguished road
nice
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-04-2006, 09:17 PM
PersonaNonGrata's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,749
PersonaNonGrata is on a distinguished road
Well done Randy! How did the tires hold up?

The E90 330 is here but not in my garage yet. I should have it early next week. Check The Lounge later next week for pics.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-04-2006, 10:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 315
White05X3 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata
Well done Randy! How did the tires hold up?

The E90 330 is here but not in my garage yet. I should have it early next week. Check The Lounge later next week for pics.
The tires held up good, except for the driver's side front. I will change them at the end of summer. I have a set of OE Pirellis I got from someone here but I am going to try to get a few more events out of these Michelins.

Good luck with the e90! I look forward to the pictures.

Check my videos again. I put something shorter and more interesting up!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-04-2006, 11:10 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: X5world
Posts: 19
AlanL is on a distinguished road
Very nice

I liked the laps at the end better than the first ones, but still looked pretty good for someone doing his first day at that track. Major kudos for having the guts to take it out to a facility like that in the first place. I am willing to bet that the P-car owner who had to point you by is not too happy about how far his driving skill levels need to advance before he can do any justice to what his wallet can afford

As a driving instructor who owns one of these critters, I would like to comment that you can tease your laps times down a little more by trying to enter the turns a smidgeon later with a little more speed. Since we don't have a lot of omph for the straights we have to carry as much speed as possible through the turns to make up the difference. From what I have seen with mine out on roadways at (ahem) playful speeds it is really happy about being trailbraked into a turn with a late apex and back on throttle immediately after coming off the brakes. As with any track/car, there are always improvements that will come about as you go back for more seat time and become more familiar with the turns.

Watch the Miata drivers carefully for hints on how to play the momentum card - these guys are experts on how to play that game to the hilt.

How did the brakes hold up? Given the weight of these things I suspect that it's unlikely BMW gave us pads that are up to heat levels we can generate if we really push them out on a road track.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-05-2006, 01:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: California
Posts: 130
r6girl is on a distinguished road
woo hoo! i had a great time at the track! if you hadn't posted about this event, i never would have known about it - thanks! and great video - you're really smooth.

the x3 was more capable on the track than i'd ever thought it could be. i never once felt out of control or that it was going to do something unexpected. it was a bit scary pitching it around the track at high speeds (my instructor was driving so fast in the first few sighting laps, i had the impression he'd forgotten he was driving an SUV and not a car) but the x3 felt planted everywhere. my instructor kept telling me to go faster, and i was trying - i managed to get the steptronic to stage a mutiny and politely refuse to downshift occasionally. i know i got the steptronic for a reason (heavy commute with lots of stop and go traffic), but i really missed having a manual transmission on the track. but it was still a ton of fun! i highly recommend a track event like this to learn the limits of your X3 - you'll be very pleasantly surprised!
__________________
2006 X3 3.0i
Black sapphire with terracotta Montana leather
Premium & sports packages, heated seats, privacy glass, and BMW iPod integration kit
My first BMW - I love it!

www.macgirl.net
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-05-2006, 09:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 315
White05X3 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanL
Very nice

I liked the laps at the end better than the first ones, but still looked pretty good for someone doing his first day at that track. Major kudos for having the guts to take it out to a facility like that in the first place. I am willing to bet that the P-car owner who had to point you by is not too happy about how far his driving skill levels need to advance before he can do any justice to what his wallet can afford

As a driving instructor who owns one of these critters, I would like to comment that you can tease your laps times down a little more by trying to enter the turns a smidgeon later with a little more speed. Since we don't have a lot of omph for the straights we have to carry as much speed as possible through the turns to make up the difference. From what I have seen with mine out on roadways at (ahem) playful speeds it is really happy about being trailbraked into a turn with a late apex and back on throttle immediately after coming off the brakes. As with any track/car, there are always improvements that will come about as you go back for more seat time and become more familiar with the turns.

Watch the Miata drivers carefully for hints on how to play the momentum card - these guys are experts on how to play that game to the hilt.

How did the brakes hold up? Given the weight of these things I suspect that it's unlikely BMW gave us pads that are up to heat levels we can generate if we really push them out on a road track.

Thanks for the kudos! It was awesome!

Thank you for the tips!! I totally appreciate it!! I rode with an instructor in a Miata around california speedway and got first hand experience with conserving momentum as I watched him destroy an Evo 8...

The school was teaching a "school line" and the instructors were pretty insistent about sticking to it. Because of the high CG of the X3 I was focusing mainly on smooth steering inputs and gentle lines so as not to upset the apple cart too much. During the long sweeping corners I used the xdrive pretty aggressively to apply more throttle earlier to make-up for my lack of HP. There was really only one corner that would have rewarded trail braking (turn 4), but I was not carrying anywere near enough speed up the hill from 3 to be able to use that technique. WSIR really rewards high HP cars which unfortunately I was not driving.

The brakes were perfect all weekend. Not even a hint of fade or rotor warping. However WSIR is not particularly demanding on brakes. While speeds are high, the corners are almost all very fast so the amount of speed you scrub is small and braking zones are long. In addition I was always very well aware of the X3's weight and CG so I drove more conservatively than I would have in a car. As such my braking zones were even longer and more gentle than necessary, but again that was a conscious choice I made. I imagine that had an instructor been driving the X3 for a full session we would have gotten a better measure of the brakes!

According to a couple of friends of mine who are instructors and who followed me around, the car looked totally flat and stable all the way around. Everybody was surprised at how well it did (myself included). Seems as if BMW did a pretty good job on this thing!!!
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-05-2006, 09:37 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: X5world
Posts: 19
AlanL is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by White05X3
The school was teaching a "school line" and the instructors were pretty insistent about sticking to it. Because of the high CG of the X3 I was focusing mainly on smooth steering inputs and gentle lines so as not to upset the apple cart too much. During the long sweeping corners I used the xdrive pretty aggressively to apply more throttle earlier to make-up for my lack of HP. There was really only one corner that would have rewarded trail braking (turn 4), but I was not carrying anywere near enough speed up the hill from 3 to be able to use that technique. WSIR really rewards high HP cars which unfortunately I was not driving.
Making sure that a novice has mastered the school line for a track is pretty much mandatory for a first round track day and it's always a Good Thing(TM) to know that line before trying to deviate from it. Smooth inputs are the basis for momentum driving and the better you can keep the overall transitions from braking to cornering to acceleration on an eve keel the more speed you can carry around the course. This is your best weapon for a lack of brute HP on a fast track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White05X3
The brakes were perfect all weekend. Not even a hint of fade or rotor warping. However WSIR is not particularly demanding on brakes. While speeds are high, the corners are almost all very fast so the amount of speed you scrub is small and braking zones are long. In addition I was always very well aware of the X3's weight and CG so I drove more conservatively than I would have in a car. As such my braking zones were even longer and more gentle than necessary, but again that was a conscious choice I made. I imagine that had an instructor been driving the X3 for a full session we would have gotten a better measure of the brakes!
There is one school of thought that advocates longer smooth braking as a way to prolong the life of the pads. It certainly results in smoother driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by White05X3
According to a couple of friends of mine who are instructors and who followed me around, the car looked totally flat and stable all the way around. Everybody was surprised at how well it did (myself included). Seems as if BMW did a pretty good job on this thing!!!
I fully concur - the first time I had ours out on some twisties on a local club drive I was stunned at how well it handled. So were the folks who were scrambling to keep up with an anemic 2.5i SUV in their sedans
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-06-2006, 12:03 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 315
White05X3 is on a distinguished road
Alan -

By the end of my 2nd day I found myself taking some later apexes. Still, I never lost sight of the fact that I had all that mass, and so high up too...

I have a few things I really need to work on as a driver. Although the club ranked me as an advanced intermediate (B group) I still have little confidence in my overall car control skills. You instructors can dance a car right on the knife's edge and never go that little bit too far. It is impressive as heck!

I on the other hand do not have the confidence to cross the line even a little. In the 19 years I have been either auto-crossing or doing track days, I have spun exactly once. While I have understeer conquered (duh... the easiest thing), I just do not have confidence in my ability to deal with oversteer. I get the theory, and do fine on a skidpad. But on the skidpad I am expecting the oversteer because I am inducing it. Maybe it is good that I lack too much confidence since it keeps me sane and safe...

I also need to really work on getting my eyes up. I have improved in this regard the past year and a half or so, but more work is needed.

Anyhow, thanks for the tips. Please keep them coming as they are very much appreciated!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-06-2006, 09:25 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: X5world
Posts: 19
AlanL is on a distinguished road
I have always been amazed at how the X3 manages to feel so neutral behind the wheel in spite of being a tall vehicle, but I sure do like the results.

Major tips to becoming a faster better driver:

1. Go to more track events

2. Go to more track events

3. I'll bet you already know what this one is - go to more track events

There is no substitute for more seat time and that's really the bottom line. I typically do about 15 or more events per year for what it's worth and there have been a few years with far more than that - depends on event opportunities and my spare time budget. I'm lucky in that I get discounted track time for playing the instructor role. That also gets me a lot of serious workout time with the pucker factor that comes along with sitting in the passenger seat for the novice group

My favorite teaching/learning venue is a day that starts out dry and gets rain by afternoon. I can get a student acquainted with the track lines in the dry and then before they start trying to get too much speed up out there, the wet track will slow them down so we can work on car balance instead. You get to experience your vehicle out on the track right at the edge of traction limits at far slower speeds than on a dry day and learn how it handles when inertia wins out over traction. At the slower speeds in the wet there is far less danger of not being shiny side up. Probably not easy to arrange for the track you just experienced judging from the surrounding desert in the video, but if you get a chance to go up north to Thunderhill during the winter months, it would be well worth the trip. Those conditions are quite common up here in the Portland area and I have to confess that a completely dry track day would be a welcome change from the last 5 events I have attended.

Click this for a shot of my track car in turn 12 at Portland Int. Raceway last November as an example of a track event in the rain.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:07 AM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.