What is the deal with these cars?

[lhordmclain]

Same here 1st Owner for all of our BMW's

Our X5 has it's own share if unexpected part failures during its warranty period and out of warranty period.

This is our go to vehicle for long driving : - (pretty happy / satisfied - lots of fun memories with my family)

my out of pocket: post warranty period
* Body Module / General Module
* Door Carrier (Driver side)
* CV Boot (Twice)
* FSR
* VCG
* OHFG
* Rear passenger side ball joint


Normal replacement
* All four tires (twice: 1st @ 50k miles and 2nd 97k miles)

Preventive Maintenance
* Cooling System was 90% overhauled (I did mine at 10th year of ownership)
* Oil Separator, dipstick and associated hoses (cold weather)
* ATF Fluid Service
* Transfer Case Fluid Service

[Doru]

Through the hands of mechanics pass numerous vehicles each with different problems, some common. Meaning not all those problems will be associated with the car you want to buy. Heck, maybe none. A well maintained vehicle can have problems, and a neglected one could still have a long run (probably not, but I have seen weird things).
However, these are all used cars now, so things can go sideways. But: usually before things go totally wrong, there are signs before and you can address the problem. If you don't want to get stranded in the middle of nowhere, the big things to check thoroughly and tackle if necessary would be:

• The cooling system. Usually people don't flush the system every 2 years, and the additives in the coolant break down, the grunt is taken by plastic parts & rubber hoses. The signs of embrittlement are a slight change of color of those parts from black to a black with a tinge of green or brown. At that point any of those components can crack or rupture without warning, and you are stranded.
• Safety. The brake lines go under some plastic underbody panels to be guarded by road debris and salt, but actually, because they are tucked away, the winter salt gets to them, and they start to corrode. If not tackled, you can lose braking
• Driveability. It's related to electrical: the battery. These cars are hogs on electricity, and if the battery is not maintained up to snuff, meaning trickle charger while garaged for a longer period of time and re-charged every now and then, especially if doing short trips. Failure to do that will result a battery that starts sulfating, low charge, which in turn will affect diverse computers, which in turn will start to shut off, or getting "glitched" and the car will exhibit strange behaviors or drivability issues. You can get stranded

Anything else concerning the stories you were told are probably the result of poor maintained cars, that tried "talking" to the owners, but no dice, hence the resulting issues you were told. Not to mention, usually a neglected part will make another part work harder eventually taking that part (or more) with it when it fails. At this point it could be even hard to diagnose correctly what was the root cause, and some repairs can fail or get costly in a hurry.

In my experience, and I highlight MY, I think they are pretty solid cars with normal wear and tear, and some preventative maintenance does help. Never been stranded, but again, this my experience and I am anal with maintenance and preventative stuff.

Plastic breaks, iron rusts.

[Kristophe]

Speaking of Toyota and Hondas, I have a friend who's the second owner of a 1998 Lexus LX 470 that rolled over 400,000K last year. He bought it with 120,000 and the only thing that has broke on him was an alternator. Original engine, trans, drive train, water pump, and radiator, still his daily driver. I'm amazed.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by DTMdan

They are as bad as people say. Don't get one and save yourself the headache.

Why do you have one?

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by thegameq

This is exactly the kind of responses and info I was hoping for. I think once the usual regular maintenance on wear items are done the car should be quite reliable. Timing belts and water pumps, etc. are regular maintenance things that once done shouldn't have to be done again for years.

Nothing against Toyota and Honda - great cars in their own right. But they have created a low or no maintenance culture when it comes to cars that has placed some unfair scrutiny and expectations on all makes. Yes, BMWs are expensive and one does expect a greater degree of reliability and refinement with all luxury makes but not ultra low maintenance - especially depending on that manufacturers goal. I've seen more than a few Ferraris on the side of the highway being loaded onto flatbeds. I'm sure they have certain "quirks" or issues that probably have their owners scratching their head as to how their $100,000+ car could have such simple problems.

There is a lot of engineering and thought that goes into making Hondas and Toyotas low maintenance. A lot of that engineering also tends to contribute to those cars boring "personality".

I've heard great things about the venerable I6 other than the tendency to burn more oil than I guess is considered normal. Has anyone done any forced induction on these engines to get more power yet retain the gas mileage? How is the bottom end of these engines? There are more 3.0 X5s in NY it seems than any other X5 model, for obvious reasons.

Honestly my biggest concern with the X5 has been the transmission issues I've been hearing. Is this a by-product of the tiptronic transmission, over use or the infamous sealed, permanent transmission fluid? How long do these things normally last? Transmissions are one of those lifetime components that should rarely need replacing.

I have the original transmission and have done no work on it though I added Dinan transmission software soon after I bought my 4.6.

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by thegameq

This is exactly the kind of responses and info I was hoping for. I think once the usual regular maintenance on wear items are done the car should be quite reliable. Timing belts and water pumps, etc. are regular maintenance things that once done shouldn't have to be done again for years.

Nothing against Toyota and Honda - great cars in their own right. But they have created a low or no maintenance culture when it comes to cars that has placed some unfair scrutiny and expectations on all makes. Yes, BMWs are expensive and one does expect a greater degree of reliability and refinement with all luxury makes but not ultra low maintenance - especially depending on that manufacturers goal. I've seen more than a few Ferraris on the side of the highway being loaded onto flatbeds. I'm sure they have certain "quirks" or issues that probably have their owners scratching their head as to how their $100,000+ car could have such simple problems.

There is a lot of engineering and thought that goes into making Hondas and Toyotas low maintenance. A lot of that engineering also tends to contribute to those cars boring "personality".

I've heard great things about the venerable I6 other than the tendency to burn more oil than I guess is considered normal. Has anyone done any forced induction on these engines to get more power yet retain the gas mileage? How is the bottom end of these engines? There are more 3.0 X5s in NY it seems than any other X5 model, for obvious reasons.

Honestly my biggest concern with the X5 has been the transmission issues I've been hearing. Is this a by-product of the tiptronic transmission, over use or the infamous sealed, permanent transmission fluid? How long do these things normally last? Transmissions are one of those lifetime components that should rarely need replacing.

I have to lean towards the I6 for reliability as evidenced by my 282,400 miles. One thing I was very careful to do while searching for mine as a used purchase was to making sure I didn't purchase a salt exposed vehicle. The undercarriage pictures posted of some of the northern x5s really show the effects of road salt on suspension components and fasteners. Frequent wintertime rinses are a must I think - especially considering the brake line corrosion. Here is my maintenance/repair experience list:

On a regular basis:

> Rotate tires, inspect pads & Rotors, CV boots, general lookover every 5000 miles
> Oil / Filter change every 8000 miles
> Brake fluid flush every 30,000 miles
> Replace belts and clean CCV every 100,000 miles
> Replace differential and transfer case fluid every 100,000 miles
> Replace sparkplugs every 120,000 miles
> Replace expansion tank, coolant and hoses every 150,000 miles
> Replace bake pads every 163,000 miles (Akebono ceramics)
> Replace rotors??? (182,000 miles on current Brembos)

My unplanned repairs have included:

> Front axles at 60,000 miles (Prior owner didn't maintain CV boots)
> FSR at 78,000 miles
> Two sparkplug coils at 124,000 miles
> Alternator at 126,000 miles
> Front driveshaft at 136,000 (used a salvage transfer case for cost savings)
> FSR (again) at 159,000 miles
> Thermostat at 176,000 miles
> Rear differential seal at 200,000 miles
> Secondary air pump at 224,000 miles
> Thermostat (again) at 245,000 miles - at least it was warranty this time
> Steering column double U-Joint shaft at 245,000 miles
> Valve cover gasket at 245,000 miles
> Both fuel tank sending units, fuel pump and canister at 245,000 miles
> Aux fan when the harness got chewed up in the mechanical fan and shorted out at 259,000 miles
> Pre-cat O2 sensors at 260,400 miles
> Water pump at 262,800 miles
> DISA Valve and MAF at 263,800 miles

The "Expected" replacements have been:

> All four window regulators
> Driver door handle carrier
> Front axle outer CV boots (each side one time)
> Front tension struts

All in all, except for the front driveshaft job that cost $4200, I have really been happy with the vehicle. It doesn't get babied, but I do monitor and maintain it. I think a lot of my good fortune is due to four things: I live in Texas with short winters so I don't have a lot of the CCV condensation problems, my daily commute is 60 miles so the engine oil always reaches full operating temperature, I run the "M" series viscosity engine oil from May through September when I my driving includes 3000 miles of towing a 1400 pound Waverunner and trailer, and I stick with Shell gasoline.

Additionally, I don't change the transmission fluid! I'm a firm believer in leaving it alone and simply installing a full re-manufactured transmission if it ever becomes necessary.

With that, I'm off towards 500,000 miles!

[thegameq]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I have the original transmission and have done no work on it though I added Dinan transmission software soon after I bought my 4.6.

That's the thing though; transmissions are normally one of the most robust and hardened components of a car--they have to be! But to have so many failures points to either a flaw, hard driven vehicles or a poorly maintained tranny. That's why I wonder if the tiptronic feature somehow puts additional stress on the tranny.

As an example I've heard that if you commute in hilly (higher elevations, etc.) areas your transmission is going to get a work out and may work harder than what may be considered average. Thus, premature wear and tear is likely. But I doubt most X5 drivers are abusing their transmissions or driving in constant elevation changes, up and down ranges. Me thinks there is some exaggeration at work and maybe some abuse and maintenance issues.

[thegameq]

Originally Posted by srmmmm

I have to lean towards the I6 for reliability as evidenced by my 282,400 miles. One thing I was very careful to do while searching for mine as a used purchase was to making sure I didn't purchase a salt exposed vehicle. The undercarriage pictures posted of some of the northern x5s really show the effects of road salt on suspension components and fasteners. Frequent wintertime rinses are a must I think - especially considering the brake line corrosion. Here is my maintenance/repair experience list:

On a regular basis:

> Rotate tires, inspect pads & Rotors, CV boots, general lookover every 5000 miles
> Oil / Filter change every 8000 miles
> Brake fluid flush every 30,000 miles
> Replace belts and clean CCV every 100,000 miles
> Replace differential and transfer case fluid every 100,000 miles
> Replace sparkplugs every 120,000 miles
> Replace expansion tank, coolant and hoses every 150,000 miles
> Replace bake pads every 163,000 miles (Akebono ceramics)
> Replace rotors??? (182,000 miles on current Brembos)

My unplanned repairs have included:

> Front axles at 60,000 miles (Prior owner didn't maintain CV boots)
> FSR at 78,000 miles
> Two sparkplug coils at 124,000 miles
> Alternator at 126,000 miles
> Front driveshaft at 136,000 (used a salvage transfer case for cost savings)
> FSR (again) at 159,000 miles
> Thermostat at 176,000 miles
> Rear differential seal at 200,000 miles
> Secondary air pump at 224,000 miles
> Thermostat (again) at 245,000 miles - at least it was warranty this time
> Steering column double U-Joint shaft at 245,000 miles
> Valve cover gasket at 245,000 miles
> Both fuel tank sending units, fuel pump and canister at 245,000 miles
> Aux fan when the harness got chewed up in the mechanical fan and shorted out at 259,000 miles
> Pre-cat O2 sensors at 260,400 miles
> Water pump at 262,800 miles
> DISA Valve and MAF at 263,800 miles

The "Expected" replacements have been:

> All four window regulators
> Driver door handle carrier
> Front axle outer CV boots (each side one time)
> Front tension struts

All in all, except for the front driveshaft job that cost $4200, I have really been happy with the vehicle. It doesn't get babied, but I do monitor and maintain it. I think a lot of my good fortune is due to four things: I live in Texas with short winters so I don't have a lot of the CCV condensation problems, my daily commute is 60 miles so the engine oil always reaches full operating temperature, I run the "M" series viscosity engine oil from May through September when I my driving includes 3000 miles of towing a 1400 pound Waverunner and trailer, and I stick with Shell gasoline.

Additionally, I don't change the transmission fluid! I'm a firm believer in leaving it alone and simply installing a full re-manufactured transmission if it ever becomes necessary.

With that, I'm off towards 500,000 miles!

That's a great list. How do you like the power of the I6? I've been told it feels punchy and pulls well from a standing or rolling start. But eventually hits a wall and you will be wishing for more power.

[Joshdub]

The I6 is impressive for what it is. I don't have a problem passing, and it gets up to speed just fine. But mine being a 5 speed is always higher up in the rpm range on the freeway. I also don't tow anything, and have never felt the need for more power. But then again, I didn't buy mine for speed like one would when buying a 4.6is.

[srmmmm]

Originally Posted by thegameq

That's a great list. How do you like the power of the I6? I've been told it feels punchy and pulls well from a standing or rolling start. But eventually hits a wall and you will be wishing for more power.

There's plenty of kick up to 85-90 mph, then you can tell there's a displacement/air flow shortcoming. But that doesn't mean it isn't comfortable cruising at 100 mph (one thing I-10 in west Texas is actually good for).

My next will be an E70 with the turbo on the I6 and the eight speed transmission. The loaners I've had from the BMW dealership have easily delivered 2 more miles per gallon that I get with mine, and plenty of power to "merge".

2002 X5 3.0 282,400 miles
2004 325i 121,000 miles