Calling alignment experts

[blackbeast]

2005 4.8

I took her in for an alignment yesterday using a hunter laser machine and when I told the guy that I wanted the toe set to as close to .01 as possible (per suggestions by members on this board in other threads) he told me he uses the factory recommendations and settings that he gets by scanning my bar code/vin.

I tried to explain that those recommendations may not be ideal but then he further explained that if I were to set the toe that low the wheels would be completely out of line. I ended any further attempt of discussion at that point because quite frankly I wouldn't have any idea what I was talking about.


This is the end result. Keep in my mind my car is lowered and sits at about access level



What do you think?

[Ricky Bobby]

Hes an idiot and put your car in wrong (4.8 has 2 axle air, not steel spring.

He should be able to set to your requested spec as you are paying for the alignment. You need to dial that toe out in the rear some more to save your treads, if you look at the rear range, .03 is on the low end, he should at least be able to get down to that.

I have about -3 degrees of camber on my right rear, and was able to get to .01 toe when requested (contrary to what he will tell you, adjusting the toe has nothing to do with how much camber there is, they are adjusted in 2 different places)

Front toe looks fine but why could he not get the LF caster in spec, as well as the front camber? Even if you are lowered, he should try to get both sides even in the front.


I'd find a better alignment shop

[blackbeast]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

Hes an idiot and put your car in wrong (4.8 has 2 axle air, not steel spring.

He should be able to set to your requested spec as you are paying for the alignment. You need to dial that toe out in the rear some more to save your treads, if you look at the rear range, .03 is on the low end, he should at least be able to get down to that.

I have about -3 degrees of camber on my right rear, and was able to get to .01 toe when requested (contrary to what he will tell you, adjusting the toe has nothing to do with how much camber there is, they are adjusted in 2 different places)

Front toe looks fine but why could he not get the LF caster in spec, as well as the front camber? Even if you are lowered, he should try to get both sides even in the front.


I'd find a better alignment shop

Damnit, I knew it.

First thing he asked me when I pulled in is if the car is lowered and some-what condescendingly told me he can't adjust the camber unless I have camber plates even though I made no mention of it at all. Yeah no sh*t pal. I should have listened to my gut at that point and left.

[blackbeast]

So with the new specs in mind, is it worth it to take it in (different shop of course) again and get the toe down further? Also, should I mention something about the caster?

[g300d]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

Front toe looks fine but why could he not get the LF caster in spec, as well as the front camber? Even if you are lowered, he should try to get both sides even in the front.

Front caster is not adjustable.

Front camber is not supposed to be adjustable but you can tweak it a little bit at the top shock mount.

Either of these out of spec is usually a worn/defected bushing that has to be replaced.

[jsoto]

Save your money. I guess it depends how much a alignment runs you. Out here, about $150-$160

If you 2X, you , more or less paid for a fresh tire.

I'd say leave it alone, and spring for a fresh alignment in the spring , summer if you choose..

[blackbeast]

Originally Posted by jsoto

Save your money. I guess it depends how much a alignment runs you. Out here, about $150-$160

If you 2X, you , more or less paid for a fresh tire.

I'd say leave it alone, and spring for a fresh alignment in the spring , summer if you choose..

This shop did the front and back for $40 bucks. Seemed cheap, but their website says they've been doing it for 30+ years and they had the modern machine so I figured I should be good.

I'm not really familiar with how much a good alignment should cost.

[Ricky Bobby]

I mean its livable. I'd just search for a better shop in the meantime is all. jsoto has a good point, as we both frequent the same shop which is always done perfectly and if custom specs are needed they do it, but its at $160 a pop.

I wouldn't pay that twice in a months time, considering its close.

EDIT: $40 front and rear is a steal, no wonder he just did it within the specs. See if you can toss an extra 20 and get the spec done to your satisfaction.

[cn90]

I do my own alignment at home.

Alignment is a straightforward business if one knows what he is doing.
No matter what car you drive, the vehicle should have all 4 wheels running in parallel. It is a simple fact but many alignment shops can't seem to master it.

In virtually all vehicles, whether it is Honda, Toyota, Volvo or BMW:
- FRONT total toe is either neutral (0 degrees) or a tiny tiny bit toe-in.
- This is b/c when the car is aligned, it is stationary. But once the vehicle rolls on the highway, the force of propulsion pushes the chassis forward and will a create a tiny bit of "toe out". So setting the car with a tiny bit of "toe in" in the shop will create a neutral condition during rolling.

- Most BMWs have Rear negative camber to allow for aggressive cornering. But this will cause excessive INNER tire wear (for the REAR tires). I usually reduce the Rear Camber to as little as allowed, using the eccentric bolts. I posted info on bimmerfest E39 forum.

PS: O.P., your car now has toe-out for both axles.

[Roman D]

Originally Posted by cn90

I do my own alignment at home.

Alignment is a straightforward business if one knows what he is doing.
No matter what car you drive, the vehicle should have all 4 wheels running in parallel. It is a simple fact but many alignment shops can't seem to master it.

In virtually all vehicles, whether it is Honda, Toyota, Volvo or BMW:
- FRONT total toe is either neutral (0 degrees) or a tiny tiny bit toe-in.
- This is b/c when the car is aligned, it is stationary. But once the vehicle rolls on the highway, the force of propulsion pushes the chassis forward and will a create a tiny bit of "toe out". So setting the car with a tiny bit of "toe in" in the shop will create a neutral condition during rolling.

- Most BMWs have Rear negative camber to allow for aggressive cornering. But this will cause excessive INNER tire wear (for the REAR tires). I usually reduce the Rear Camber to as little as allowed, using the eccentric bolts. I posted info on bimmerfest E39 forum.

PS: O.P., your car now has toe-out for both axles.

Not exactly... Not exactly a straight forward business...
If you have RWD vehicle, front wheels should be diled slightly inwards as resistance of the road pushes them outwards.
If you have FWD, front wheels should diled slightly outwards as forces from drive axcels pulling them inwards.
We're talking about miserable numbed of degrees but I believe that if something is specified to be such and such, it should be followed.