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Old 11-09-2015, 06:39 PM
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4.6is New Problem: P0011

I haven't posted anything about my 2002 4.6is in a while because I've actually been able to drive it instead of just work on it (109K miles, purchased in June 2015). Well, that all changed today and it looks like my record for not having to work on this thing will stand at 4 weeks.

It's been running great after I finished up some fairly major surgery about a month ago. That consisted of replacing the crankcase vent, intake manifold gaskets, oil separator, and all the associated vacuum and drain hoses. For good measure I also replaced the valley pan gasket, all 8 coils, and throttle body gasket.

I went to the drive thru at the bank this afternoon and heard a what could best be described as a rhythmic engine sound when I rolled down the window. I also noticed a very slight shudder when idling that wasn't there last time I drove it. The sensation was very similar to what it feels like when an ignition coil is getting weak, but hasnít failed completely. I made a stop to run another errand and when I restarted it the Check Engine light came on (it wasnít on until now). The slightly rough idle was still there, although at higher engine speeds everything seems fine. And of course the noise was still there.

When I got home and opened the hood, there is a distinct mechanical sound coming from the front of the engine. But itís not a rattle - itís almost more of a low pitched squeak. I also noticed that the engine would nearly stall every few seconds. Thatís the source of the shudder I was feeling at the bank.

It reminds me very much of the failure pattern for the VANOS in an M52T‹ or M54 6 cylinder - the same dodgy idle and near stalling. Except on the I6, that goes away once the engine warms up. Even after it was fully up to temperature, the X5 was still having the symptoms. Having recently performed a complete timing chain/guide and VANOS service on a 2001 740i, the telltale sings are very familiar to me. The noise Iím hearing from the X5 is not the same as the 740 - and the 740 definitely needed chains and guides.

I understand that the code is related to the variable timing for Bank 1, but isnít more descriptive than that. Itís pretty obvious that it is a timing problem because of the near-stalling. But Iím not really sure where to begin with diagnosis and repair.

Itís worth noting that roughly 1,000 miles ago I performed an oil service and replaced the valve cover and upper timing cover gaskets. While the oil was drained I removed the oil pan to check for debris that signaled failing timing chain guides (there was none) and visually inspected the chain guides. There were no signs of any trouble related to the chain guides.

Also, I back into my driveway and open the door so I can see where I'm going and to make sure I don't run over the grass. So I definitely would have heard this before if it had been going on for a while.

After doing a little reading online, I think I can rule out the cam position sensor, but might swap one with the 740 anyway - just to make sure. After that, I might check the VANOS solenoid. But if thatís not the problem, Iím not sure what to look for next.

Does anyone have experience with these symptoms who can suggest where I should focus my efforts at diagnosis?
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2002 X5 4.6is - Imola Red/Black (For Sale)
2001 740i M Sport - Anthrazit Metallic/Black (Sold)
1998 M3/4/5 - Technoviolet/Dove (Sold)
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  #2  
Old 11-09-2015, 06:42 PM
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My 02 4.6is did the same thing at 143k miles. I took it to my indy and it had multiple vanos codes in which he cleared so I got home and replaced the spark plugs and ignition coils and it never returned even with the new owner at 190,000 miles.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:26 AM
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Subbed for updates, I don't know much about the Vanos in the M62's
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Old 11-10-2015, 01:24 PM
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Well, here's the plan so far:

Step 1: Do a proper electronic diagnosis with DIS/INPA instead of the handheld I used for the preliminary diagnostics.

Step 2: Swap VANOS solenoids side-to-side to see if the problem moves from Bank 1 to Bank 2. If so, hopefully I'll just have to replace a solenoid.

Step 3: If the problem isn't the solenoid, I suppose I'll have to rebuild the VANOS actuators themselves. Not fun on the V8.

Of course, this is all assumes that the advanced diagnosis confirms the original findings from the handheld.
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2002 X5 4.6is - Imola Red/Black (For Sale)
2001 740i M Sport - Anthrazit Metallic/Black (Sold)
1998 M3/4/5 - Technoviolet/Dove (Sold)
2003 Z4 3.0i Sport - Sterlinggrau Metallic/Black (the Wife's)
2015 i3 REx - Arravani Gray/Tera World (Daily Driver)
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Old 11-10-2015, 06:57 PM
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I took a quick video of the engine noise this afternoon. When I first started the cold engine, the noise was not present. I drove around the block a couple of times to get it warmed up a little, then the noise came back.


Embedding the video doesn't seem to be working. Here's a link:
https://youtu.be/-jKWb26M414
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2002 X5 4.6is - Imola Red/Black (For Sale)
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1998 M3/4/5 - Technoviolet/Dove (Sold)
2003 Z4 3.0i Sport - Sterlinggrau Metallic/Black (the Wife's)
2015 i3 REx - Arravani Gray/Tera World (Daily Driver)
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerM3inGA View Post
I took a quick video of the engine noise this afternoon. When I first started the cold engine, the noise was not present. I drove around the block a couple of times to get it warmed up a little, then the noise came back.


Embedding the video doesn't seem to be working. Here's a link:
https://youtu.be/-jKWb26M414

Yeah swap the vanos seelonoids first and see if its the selonoids. If not then then the vanos. Then repair on the VANOS is not all that difficult. I ve done the repair on my 99 540it with 4.4L and a 540 M-sport that had the vanos. In both instances I used the detailed Besian step by step procedure and worked well in both cases.
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:46 AM
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If your X5 shudder during start-up....Check Harmonic Balancer.
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Old 11-11-2015, 06:12 AM
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After watching your video, I think it would be prudent to take the upper timing covers off to inspect your chain guides. Obviously you want to do as little work at first which would be to swap VANOS solenoids. But with that much noise, I think you are either looking at guides or rebuilding the VANOS. I am in same boat with the diesel rattle and am not looking forward to doing the V8 style rebuild. Keep us posted as to what is up.
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:24 AM
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Roughly 1,000 miles ago I replaced the valve cover and upper timing cover gaskets. I also dropped the oil pan in an effort to asses the condition of the timing chain guides.

It's certainly plausible that they could have failed in since the inspection, but it seems unlikely.

Last night I connected a 12V power source directly to the solenoids. It might just be my imagination because I was expecting (hoping?) that the Bank 1 solenoid would have a problem, but it sure seemed like it was weaker than Bank 2. So the plan for now is the swap the Bank 1 solenoid with a known good one from my 740i. That ought to tell me for sure if it's the solenoid. If that doesn't fix it, I guess I'll have to open the engine back up for a VANOS rebuild.

In other news, I managed to capture this photo of a V8-powered BMW in its natural state:
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2002 X5 4.6is - Imola Red/Black (For Sale)
2001 740i M Sport - Anthrazit Metallic/Black (Sold)
1998 M3/4/5 - Technoviolet/Dove (Sold)
2003 Z4 3.0i Sport - Sterlinggrau Metallic/Black (the Wife's)
2015 i3 REx - Arravani Gray/Tera World (Daily Driver)
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Old 11-11-2015, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerM3inGA View Post
Roughly 1,000 miles ago I replaced the valve cover and upper timing cover gaskets. I also dropped the oil pan in an effort to asses the condition of the timing chain guides.

It's certainly plausible that they could have failed in since the inspection, but it seems unlikely.

Last night I connected a 12V power source directly to the solenoids. It might just be my imagination because I was expecting (hoping?) that the Bank 1 solenoid would have a problem, but it sure seemed like it was weaker than Bank 2. So the plan for now is the swap the Bank 1 solenoid with a known good one from my 740i. That ought to tell me for sure if it's the solenoid. If that doesn't fix it, I guess I'll have to open the engine back up for a VANOS rebuild.

In other news, I managed to capture this photo of a V8-powered BMW in its natural state:
V8 powered BMW in it's natural state indeed. I'm in for hearing what fault code INPA may show. Also, does that X5 have the red trim and Alcantara seats??

Also, nice stable you got there...............
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