Driver adaptive transmission. Question

blaubenz · #1 07-02-2016, 03:58 PM

I am very lucky. I happen to have two 2005 4.4 sport. So as fare as I can tell they are mechanically identical, They even have identical wheels and tires.

I got these used. I got about 7K miles on one and about 3k on another. I notice on one of them that it drives and shift a lot sporty, it is more responsive, shifts more crisps, gas pedal more sensitive. For example on one of them in a dead stop I press the pedal look down and the mpg gauge automatically goes to 8mpg but the other I have to make a little effort to press the pedal more to get it to 8mpg. The other one drives smoother.

Now I don't want to think there is something wrong with one of the X5. They both have low mileage. And I don't have any indication that anything is wrong except for what I have describe here.

They only thing I can think of is the adaptive Is there any other explanation for what I am describing.

BTW I don't have an aggressive driving style at all. I am use to driving big SUV and you folks probably would describe me as driving the bimmer like a big SUV truck.

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wpoll · #2 07-02-2016, 04:32 PM

From what I understand the transmission adaptation has two aspects. Adaptations for component wear etc. are stored and are applied continuously (unless cleared by OBD software - INPA etc.) and driver adaptations are transient and are cleared each time you shutdown the car.

Someone who knows more about will likely jump in soon and either confirm this or remind be I'm full of....

Pretty sure I read this on here somewhere though. If true, it seem the difference you perceive between the two vehicles is not likely to be caused by trans. adaptations.

X53Jay4.8is · #3 07-02-2016, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blaubenz

I am very lucky. I happen to have two 2005 4.4 sport. So as fare as I can tell they are mechanically identical, They even have identical wheels and tires.

I got these used. I got about 7K miles on one and about 3k on another. I notice on one of them that it drives and shift a lot sporty, it is more responsive, shifts more crisps, gas pedal more sensitive. For example on one of them in a dead stop I press the pedal look down and the mpg gauge automatically goes to 8mpg but the other I have to make a little effort to press the pedal more to get it to 8mpg. The other one drives smoother.

Now I don't want to think there is something wrong with one of the X5. They both have low mileage. And I don't have any indication that anything is wrong except for what I have describe here.

They only thing I can think of is the adaptive Is there any other explanation for what I am describing.

BTW I don't have an aggressive driving style at all. I am use to driving big SUV and you folks probably would describe me as driving the bimmer like a big SUV truck.

Someone may of installed tuner software on the vehicle instead of the stock software. Could be engine and transmission

Plattus1000 · #4 07-04-2016, 05:14 AM

You can "reset adaptation" in your throttle. I forget the exact proceedure but there's a position for the key, you press the accelerator pedal to the floor for 30 seconds and release, turn the key back to off for 10 seconds and then to ignition position to start the car. I foget it but google "throttle adaptation reset e53" and it should help.

Qsilver7 · #5 07-05-2016, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plattus1000

You can "reset adaptation" in your throttle. I forget the exact proceedure but:

there's a position for the key,
you press the accelerator pedal to the floor for 30 seconds and release,
turn the key back to off for 10 seconds (actually, you wouldn't do this step because the accelerator pedal stuff done in the 2 steps above would be erased due to the TCM not storing the steps just performed)
and then to ignition position to start the car.

I foget it but google "throttle adaptation reset e53" and it should help.

No...no...no...nooooOOOOO! Not this again.

This is a mistatement that persists...I can only presume it started a while back by owners that had no idea/understanding of the "driver influences" of ATC (adaptive transmission control). I've been explaining this since around the mid 2000s as to why it is NOT a reset...but just a simple temporary trick to get ATC to select sport mode (1 of 3 adaptive modes selected at each engine start-up...based on the driver's use of the accelerator/throttle usage or response).

Doing this procedure above (if you understand how ATC works)...the TCM (tranny control module) would interpret the steps (laid out in the bolded text in the quote)...as an aggressive driver. Thus ATC would automatically select the adaptive sport mode.

Again...this is NOT a tranny reset or adaptive reset...its just a normal selection of the "sport mode" due to the control module being powered...then accelerator being pushed to the floor for a period of 30 seconds. ATC will always select 1 of 3 modes based on driver's input from the accelerator pedal and the above would interpreted as sport mode based on the simple 2 steps above. Again, this is NOT a adaptive reset...but a simple selection based on driver input...which will NOT be remembered when the ignition is turned off. In fact, you can go through the steps above and force ATC into selecting sport mode...but if your driving style is actually NOT aggressive...over a short period of time with soft/light throttle response...the driving style will change to adapt to how you're actually driving...especially if you have a soft foot (granny-toe)

:

extreme economy (granny-toe mode aka "XE" mode)
economy mode (average driver aka "E" mode)
sport mode (aggressive driver)

santinif4 · #6 11-30-2016, 07:51 PM

Qsilver7 - thanks for info on this. I read another post of yours earlier that was even more indepth - all great info!

Are these diagrams you show from some BMW manual that we can get our hands on as well? And if so can you please post where/how to access them? Thx

Also, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly what you are saying about ATC and AGS - the ATC selects 1 of 3 modes based on how you accelerate.

1) Does that mean that the FIRST application of pedal pressure for THAT driving session (until engine is shut off again) ESTABLISHES the mode for that ENTIRE particular session (ie suppose I floored it the first time I accelerated, but later in that same drive started driving like a granny)? In the example I just mentioned would it stay in aggressive (sport) mode?

2) You wrote: "In fact, you can go through the steps above and force ATC into selecting sport mode...but if your driving style is actually NOT aggressive...over a short period of time with soft/light throttle response...the driving style will change to adapt to how you're actually driving...especially if you have a soft foot (granny-toe)"

What is the "over a short period of time"? Are you talking about? Minutes, as in a period of time WITHIN that particular drive? - or days, as in many different startups and shutdowns later? I would think it cannot be the latter, as you have previously stated and highlighted on these diagrams - "Driving style is NOT stored."

3) I am new to BMW's having only just acquired a 2005 X5 4.4 and am just finding out about this adaptive feature. It seems to 'hesitate' for lack of a better word when first accelerating in normal drive mode (D). At first I thought the brakes were dragging a bit. It was more pronounced while in traffic where I was constantly going from 5-10 mph and having to only barely press the accelerator. It would then again seem like nothing was happening for the first second of time, and the first small bit of pedal travel, and then it would begin to go. Shifts were not rough or abnormal feeling though. Later I researched and read somewhere this adaptive feature was the culprit and was causing the tranny to start in 2nd gear instead of 1st - all based on the CUMULATIVE driving habits of the previous owner over the course of its life! Now I am to understand that the retention of driving style is not stored, but does the extreme economy mode actually cause it to start in 2nd gear?

4) After having said all this, I still am not sure how I can apply this to make the car NOT hesitate when starting out. If I aggressively apply gas it doesnt hesitate at all - only if I accelerate like I normally do in any other vehicle - which is to say not floor it nor granny toe it either - just what I would think that almost everyone else does - just a normal push on the pedal. However this is precisely when it seems to lag a bit. If (1) above is true, then should I aggressively accelerate the very FIRST time to force it to NOT start in 2nd gear for the remainder of that drive, and do so every time I begin a new driving session??

5) Or does driving forever in Sport mode solve all these problems, and if so, does it do any harm to continually drive exclusively in sport mode?

If you could please address each of these issues I would be eternallly grateful! Just want to have it drive normally!

Thanks!
Mike

Qsilver7 · #7 12-01-2016, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by santinif4

Qsilver7 - thanks for info on this. I read another post of yours earlier that was even more indepth - all great info!

Are these diagrams you show from some BMW manual that we can get our hands on as well? And if so can you please post where/how to access them? Thx

Also, just to make sure I'm understanding correctly what you are saying about ATC and AGS - the ATC selects 1 of 3 modes based on how you accelerate.

1) Does that mean that the FIRST application of pedal pressure for THAT driving session (until engine is shut off again) ESTABLISHES the mode for that ENTIRE particular session (ie suppose I floored it the first time I accelerated, but later in that same drive started driving like a granny)? In the example I just mentioned would it stay in aggressive (sport) mode?

2) You wrote: "In fact, you can go through the steps above and force ATC into selecting sport mode...but if your driving style is actually NOT aggressive...over a short period of time with soft/light throttle response...the driving style will change to adapt to how you're actually driving...especially if you have a soft foot (granny-toe)"

What is the "over a short period of time"? Are you talking about? Minutes, as in a period of time WITHIN that particular drive? - or days, as in many different startups and shutdowns later? I would think it cannot be the latter, as you have previously stated and highlighted on these diagrams - "Driving style is NOT stored."

3) I am new to BMW's having only just acquired a 2005 X5 4.4 and am just finding out about this adaptive feature. It seems to 'hesitate' for lack of a better word when first accelerating in normal drive mode (D). At first I thought the brakes were dragging a bit. It was more pronounced while in traffic where I was constantly going from 5-10 mph and having to only barely press the accelerator. It would then again seem like nothing was happening for the first second of time, and the first small bit of pedal travel, and then it would begin to go. Shifts were not rough or abnormal feeling though. Later I researched and read somewhere this adaptive feature was the culprit and was causing the tranny to start in 2nd gear instead of 1st - all based on the CUMULATIVE driving habits of the previous owner over the course of its life! Now I am to understand that the retention of driving style is not stored, but does the extreme economy mode actually cause it to start in 2nd gear?

4) After having said all this, I still am not sure how I can apply this to make the car NOT hesitate when starting out. If I aggressively apply gas it doesnt hesitate at all - only if I accelerate like I normally do in any other vehicle - which is to say not floor it nor granny toe it either - just what I would think that almost everyone else does - just a normal push on the pedal. However this is precisely when it seems to lag a bit. If (1) above is true, then should I aggressively accelerate the very FIRST time to force it to NOT start in 2nd gear for the remainder of that drive, and do so every time I begin a new driving session??

5) Or does driving forever in Sport mode solve all these problems, and if so, does it do any harm to continually drive exclusively in sport mode?

If you could please address each of these issues I would be eternallly grateful! Just want to have it drive normally!

Thanks!
Mike

Most of the info (diagrams, pics, etc) you see me post have come from BMW docs and tech info accumulated over the years as it has come available. People find info and post links or PDFs etc...and I usually peruse the info and save the info I find important (before the link dies or is lost).

Here's a few links to some BMW manuals and docs...some of it is for newer BMWs some for older, some for a little of everything. Many times I saved stuffed for newer BMWs I didn't even know I would own...but it was just new info or technology that BMW was advancing etc...so I saved it "just because. There's also "generational" info...tech info may be titled for one BMw model...but the info will carry over into its generational cousins...ie the e38/e39/e46/e53 all share the same technology design architecture:

1. No...the first press of the accelerator pedal does not dictate that the ENTIRE driving session will retain the 1st selected mode. This technology is "adaptive"...thus takes the data that it receives and performs as outlined.

2. This explains what was asked in question 1. The system adapts to data as you drive. Since "live" data is being received...Im not sure if you can actually give a "time" interval. Think of your own body...if you're running...your heart beat increases. If you stop running, your hear rate is still elevated...but for how long? It depends on how long you were previously running plus other factors in if you stopped completely or was still moving but in a slower manner. I can't say that you're heart rate will slow down to normal in 1.5 minutes...because there are other factors to entertain.

3. No, extreme economy mode does NOT start in 2nd gear. But it does move from 1st to 2nd gear very quickly. In fact, the shift from 1st to 2nd in extreme economy and economy modes can be so smooth (due to BMW's OVERLAP SHIFT TECHNOLOGY)...the only way to tell that the tranny shifted is to watch the tachometer to see when the needle dips. There are only 2 adaptive modes were the tranny starts in 2nd gear...STOP N GO mode & WINTER mode.

4. There is a cold engine "warm up" mode as well. This feature is designed to warm up not only the engine, but the catalyst, and rear end as well. If you work with the tranny...and allow it to remain in 1st gear and shift "late"...you'll notice that the HVAC system will also start blowing warm air much sooner that you'd expect (in winter). You can also "blow threw" this feature which can cause an abrupt tranny shift...see the info below:

5. Driving in extreme SPORT mode does cancel ATC's adaptive modes...but you'll probably see more consumption of fuel. And you may end up going back to D so that the RPMs drop if you do highway driving. After a while...I would assume the delay into 5th or 6th gear would be annoying (can't remember what model/model year you have).

OrangeFurious · #8 12-01-2016, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qsilver7

Driving in extreme SPORT mode does cancel ATC's adaptive modes...but you'll probably see more consumption of fuel. And you may end up going back to D so that the RPMs drop if you do highway driving. After a while...I would assume the delay into 5th or 6th gear would be annoying (can't remember what model/model year you have).

Out of curiosity, how many folks here actually just drop it in Sport for daily use? I've always saved Sport or M mode on my cars for when I mean it, but know a handful of people just switch to hyperdrive as soon as they turn the key.

Anhelenuk · #9 12-01-2016, 01:14 PM

I never even tried it in my 6 months of ownership. On the way home tonight I will throw it into S mode.

Qsilver7 · #10 12-01-2016, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrangeFurious

Out of curiosity, how many folks here actually just drop it in Sport for daily use? I've always saved Sport or M mode on my cars for when I mean it, but know a handful of people just switch to hyperdrive as soon as they turn the key.

I fall into the camp of using it sporadically and for specific purposes...and it's only for short periods of time...like in the two examples below:

to cancel ATC (especially the warm up cycle) on cold mornings when I need to force it to quit due to traffic situations that call for faster response than what the cycle calls for. I prefer to go into S mode instead of forcing the cycle to quit...which usually results in a very harsh shift from 1st to 2nd. Moving into Sport mode, the tranny shifts smoothly into 2nd, and from there, you can easily go back into D since the warm up cycle shift mode has been cancelled due to reaching 25 MPH.
when I know I need to move out faster than normal to get around a "traffic" situation when at a light. The extreme Sport mode is going to give me the opportunity to take advantage of the engine's power reserve by delaying the 1st to 2nd shift...I prefer letting the car do it than using manual mode in this scenario.

Just some FYI to those that may not be "up" on how BMW incorporated "fuzzy logic" into ATC (adaptive transmission control) and the driver/environmental influenced modes (aka AGS features) of the TCM (transmission control module):

{If you have STEPTRONIC gear shift...then the manually selected extreme sport mode/program is activated by moving the gear shift lever to the left from position "D" into the "M/S" shift gate. The display in the instrument cluster should change from "D" to "DS".}

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