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  #21  
Old 10-07-2018, 03:44 AM
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The last time I heard that sound out was the front drive shaft slipping inside the transfer case.

The sound should be coming right out of your butt if it's LHD. I would hang a camera under the car and video the point where the drive shaft exits the transfer case. Put a little dust on the case (like baby powder), that tap should cause enough shock to "puff" the powder if I'm correct.

The good news is usually correctable with an extended length drive shaft. I personally would probably rig up a "fat guibo" rather than replace the entire drive shaft if the splines aren't destroyed.

Search xoutpost for drive shaft slipping you should find video/audio with nearly identical clicks.


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  #22  
Old 10-07-2018, 03:47 AM
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Not sure when they introduced the front drive disconnect. If your car can disconnect the front axle with the fuse removal you can verify the issue.

More logic behind what I'm saying; body twist from the left v right turn affects the distance between the front diff and the transfer case.


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  #23  
Old 10-07-2018, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
The last time I heard that sound out was the front drive shaft slipping inside the transfer case.

The sound should be coming right out of your butt if it's LHD. I would hang a camera under the car and video the point where the drive shaft exits the transfer case. Put a little dust on the case (like baby powder), that tap should cause enough shock to "puff" the powder if I'm correct.

The good news is usually correctable with an extended length drive shaft. I personally would probably rig up a "fat guibo" rather than replace the entire drive shaft if the splines aren't destroyed.

Search xoutpost for drive shaft slipping you should find video/audio with nearly identical clicks.


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Right now the Front Drive Shaft was taken out and the splines were shimmied on it. Then at the Guibo washers were placed to try and push the shaft back deeper into the transfer case.

I'm guessing it still needs to go in further and the extended shaft should work? Is that what you meant by fat guibo though or is that something else?

Mine is pre-facelift and no X-Drive so no front drive delete for me to test unfortunately.

I'll do some searching as well, thanks again for your help!
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  #24  
Old 10-07-2018, 11:35 AM
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Clicking sound need help

Sounds like fat guibo concept was attempted. I have a feeling something having to to with the seal on the transfer case doesn't also a solid inserting of the splines into the transfer case. It's surprising to me that some X5 have this problem. It shouldn't be difficult to measure the amount of overlap of the spline by measuring the distance of the end of the shaft to whatever is the edge of the transfer case when it's installed compared to the measurement of the depth of the internal spline. Clearly there is very little overlap if that is the slipping going on.

How it isn't over an inch or two is simply stunning. Look into extended length drive shaft I'm sure the guys that sell them will explain the details. I've seen details of how somebody lengthened his own and also a kit with a two piece drive shaft so you can install the longer shaft without lowering either TC or diff.
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  #25  
Old 10-07-2018, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Sounds like fat guibo concept was attempted. I have a feeling something having to to with the seal on the transfer case doesn't also a solid inserting of the splines into the transfer case. It's surprising to me that some X5 have this problem. It shouldn't be difficult to measure the amount of overlap of the spline by measuring the distance of the end of the shaft to whatever is the edge of the transfer case when it's installed compared to the measurement of the depth of the internal spline. Clearly there is very little overlap if that is the slipping going on.

How it isn't over an inch or two is simply stunning. Look into extended length drive shaft I'm sure the guys that sell them will explain the details. I've seen details of how somebody lengthened his own and also a kit with a two piece drive shaft so you can install the longer shaft without lowering either TC or diff.
The design of this front drive shaft is just crazy. Makes you wonder if the engineers were just thinking about the now back then and how long they considered the lift of these vehicles to be.

I'll look into the 2 piece but definitely an extended shaft and hopefully it goes smoothly.

Thanks again for everything!
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  #26  
Old 10-07-2018, 02:52 PM
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When reading the post about a previous case that was the drive shaft/ spline it was surmised that somehow the spline wore out that is absolutely hogwash a square spline will break the shaft before it can "hop" over the teeth. It can ONLY slip if it is pulled out of the socket.

There is a clear error in manufacturing that allows cars to leave production line with a drive shaft that only sockets into the TC by a few mm. The engine shifts forward a few mm over time as the subframe or engine mounts or TC mounts wear and it can pull out enough that the spline will slip.

If there is compression from guibo (joo-boh) then it's in as far as it goes but something is stopping the shaft from going in far enough.

Before I replaced my perfectly good but 4mm too short drive shaft I would see if there was a way to modify the lip/seal etc that stops the spline from going in far enough. The washers (or maybe some threaded inserts) to add a few more mm on the guibo side could stave off replacement.

Sounds like youve already had it off so round two: this time actually measure how far in the female side of the spline goes in, make a reference mark on the shaft and somewhere like the center bearing so you can determine how far in the shaft isn't going and measure how far into the inner spline the shaft COULD go.

Then look up the two part extended axle.

My bet: BMW designed it properly then realized they couldn't get the damn thing in at the point in the assembly line, somebody fogured out they only needed 5mm spline engagement to have 150% torque so it passed and the used cut off shafts ever since. (I can see no other good reason they would not have enough proper spline engagement like 20-30mm like the front dif has (and those are half the torque)
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  #27  
Old 10-07-2018, 03:07 PM
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Oh for those connecting the dots: the pull out is occasional, from body flex etc but the slamming from one tooth to the next will quickly wear down the edges of the splines and it will happen more often until it's always.

People have had minor success with guibo washers but it's a minor band-aid you are just punting. I think something in the design of the TC to shaft interface is holding the shaft out of the TC (or you could just say stack two guibo and get an extra 20-30mm insertion.

I've never taken out the drive shaft: does the center bearing have axial loading on the bearing? That could easily be what holds the axle from going in far enough.

In any event were it my car I would probably remove the shaft after making some reference marks, determine what holds the shaft back.

Once I found that part, out comes my two favorite tools: band saw and right angle grinder.

Remove the interference holding the shaft from going in. Push it in a proper 20-30mm and make up the length difference on the guibo side. (engineering some nice strong offsets like we use to offset wheels). Maybe bump up the bolts a mm to make up for the added length.

I'm sure the guibo side ALSO has spline connector. What are the chances that can be backed off, a spacer put in in the center to get you an extra 10mm?

You can drill new holes to move the center support.
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  #28  
Old 10-07-2018, 03:10 PM
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26207508629

Superseded

26201229606

As of: 04/07/2000

Hmmm wonder if 606 is longer. :-)
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  #29  
Old 10-07-2018, 03:17 PM
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So looks like the end that "goes in" the TC actually does both? The TC is both male and female while the shaft is both female and male.

If the outer edge of the shaft sticks out far enough that you can simply cut that off a little bit you could get more spline engagement If that is what is stopping things.

If the cavity isnt deep enough in the shaft maybe you can cut some length odd the TC "pecker". Sometimes bad engineering needs some redneck repair.


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  #30  
Old 10-07-2018, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post


So looks like the end that "goes in" the TC actually does both? The TC is both male and female while the shaft is both female and male.

If the outer edge of the shaft sticks out far enough that you can simply cut that off a little bit you could get more spline engagement If that is what is stopping things.

If the cavity isnt deep enough in the shaft maybe you can cut some length odd the TC "pecker". Sometimes bad engineering needs some redneck repair.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
26207508629

Superseded

26201229606

As of: 04/07/2000

Hmmm wonder if 606 is longer. :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Oh for those connecting the dots: the pull out is occasional, from body flex etc but the slamming from one tooth to the next will quickly wear down the edges of the splines and it will happen more often until it's always.

People have had minor success with guibo washers but it's a minor band-aid you are just punting. I think something in the design of the TC to shaft interface is holding the shaft out of the TC (or you could just say stack two guibo and get an extra 20-30mm insertion.

I've never taken out the drive shaft: does the center bearing have axial loading on the bearing? That could easily be what holds the axle from going in far enough.

In any event were it my car I would probably remove the shaft after making some reference marks, determine what holds the shaft back.

Once I found that part, out comes my two favorite tools: band saw and right angle grinder.

Remove the interference holding the shaft from going in. Push it in a proper 20-30mm and make up the length difference on the guibo side. (engineering some nice strong offsets like we use to offset wheels). Maybe bump up the bolts a mm to make up for the added length.

I'm sure the guibo side ALSO has spline connector. What are the chances that can be backed off, a spacer put in in the center to get you an extra 10mm?

You can drill new holes to move the center support.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
When reading the post about a previous case that was the drive shaft/ spline it was surmised that somehow the spline wore out that is absolutely hogwash a square spline will break the shaft before it can "hop" over the teeth. It can ONLY slip if it is pulled out of the socket.

There is a clear error in manufacturing that allows cars to leave production line with a drive shaft that only sockets into the TC by a few mm. The engine shifts forward a few mm over time as the subframe or engine mounts or TC mounts wear and it can pull out enough that the spline will slip.

If there is compression from guibo (joo-boh) then it's in as far as it goes but something is stopping the shaft from going in far enough.

Before I replaced my perfectly good but 4mm too short drive shaft I would see if there was a way to modify the lip/seal etc that stops the spline from going in far enough. The washers (or maybe some threaded inserts) to add a few more mm on the guibo side could stave off replacement.

Sounds like youve already had it off so round two: this time actually measure how far in the female side of the spline goes in, make a reference mark on the shaft and somewhere like the center bearing so you can determine how far in the shaft isn't going and measure how far into the inner spline the shaft COULD go.

Then look up the two part extended axle.

My bet: BMW designed it properly then realized they couldn't get the damn thing in at the point in the assembly line, somebody fogured out they only needed 5mm spline engagement to have 150% torque so it passed and the used cut off shafts ever since. (I can see no other good reason they would not have enough proper spline engagement like 20-30mm like the front dif has (and those are half the torque)
I'm sure you are correct and a change was done to the part blue print once production was involved. Gotta have good takt time and output quantities right lol.

I think the diagram is showing the dust cover as well at the end of the shaft. I'm thinking maybe that is keeping it from going back more.

It's amazing how fixing my axle issues is now allowing this play in the shaft. Makes me wonder how bad my alignment and everything was before.

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