2006 X5 3.0i keeps running with key off

[Purplefade]

Just throwing this out there for conversation, but would it be possible for the ZKE to fail internally and have "sleep mode" keep the car awake AND running?


I know I mentioned botched alarm job earlier and that was a no go, but is it possible a prior owner tried to tap the sleep mode feature for a "courtesy light" or something stupid and now has 12v back feeding the circuit?


Insane? Does it stay running for 16 minutes ish by chance?

[oldskewel]

Originally Posted by Siggy

Here's what I have done. I unhooked the negative terminal off the battery. I opened the fuse panel and put my meter on millivolts and started probing.

I thought I was looking for 0 Mv on everything but I'm getting some with .1-.2 Mv. Is that acceptable? At what level should I know there's an issue? .3? .4? Over 1 Mv?

I'm not an electrical guy so please be patient with my questions!

Assuming you're not actually reading megaVolts there ... (big M vs. small m)
and it's ~0.1 mV, that is really really tiny. Likely to be at the limit of your meter.

Only if you're really curious ... You might try touching the removed negative battery cable to the positive battery terminal (and be certain that while doing this, the negative battery post is completely free of anything). That will give any internal circuits a chance to dissipate more easily. Then re-do the tests and see if they've dropped closer to zero.

Generally, the tests where you probe the fuses, expecting mV values, is when the battery is still connected, and you're looking for a voltage drop across the fuse, which would mean current is flowing through it. Useful for tracking down a battery drain, but I guess in this case, you're looking to see what circuits might still be alive when they should be dead? To do that, you can just measure for 12V, while the battery is connected.

Along the lines of Purplefade's random suggestion ... and this may be crazy, but ... how about a problem with the OBDII port? Pins / wiring problem? I know that has power all the time, regardless of the key, and I know that when my foxwell is plugged in there (with the key in and ON) it's pretty amazing how much of the car it can control from there.

Since it's an intermittent problem, the first thing I'll recommend is to NOT try to find it when the problem is not there. Because it's gone. Best you can do is to take baseline measurements, practice, get all you tools ready to go, so that when it comes back you're ready.

[andrewwynn]

The car probably pulls 300 mA until sleep then should be 30-50mA.

If you are seeing tiny numbers I’m guessing that you either have the meter on AC or you blew the fuse

Use the A setting. Most often on mA setting you will open a door and pull 3a momentarily and blow the mA fuse.

[Siggy]

Well, I'm back The car has been sitting since my last posts. Finally getting around to working on it again. Oh boy what a mess this thing is.

Here's where I am now. I ordered an ignition switch from the BMW dealer. This makes #4, I think, but the other 3 weren't from the dealer. I installed that, tried to charge the battery (took it out of the car) and it wouldn't charge well. Took it and had it tested and it failed the test. That was a 1 year old Bosch battery, 2nd one that's "gone bad" in the last 2 years. Got a new battery (it was free, thank you!), as soon as I hooked it up, the radio blasted and the fan motor started blowing, all the dash lights lit up. WTH?

Took the glove box out and unplugged the FSU. Hooked the battery back up, everything lights up again, no key in the ignition.

Bumped the key a few times to get oil up into the top of the engine since it's been sitting, then started it. It started fine. Turned the key off and took the key out and the car kept running for about 10-15 seconds. All the lights stay on and then the dash lights start coming on, along with the Engine Failsafe message. Put the key back in, started it, it seems to run fine, then turn it off and take the key out and it keeps running.

Clearly I'm missing something obvious here now? I have the pinout for the ignition harness and I can verify that there's power on the #5,6, and 7 pin.

Anyone got any suggestions on what to check next? In my mind, it appears that the car thinks the key is in a position it's not (possible short on one of the pins, 1,2, 8, or 10). To me, and I could be completely wrong on this, the only way there's power on things like dash, climate control, radio/nav display is because it thinks the key is on. Only way I would think that would be possible is for some power wire to be supplying power to 1,2,8, or 10 wire through a bad wire or crunched wire somewhere.

Suggestions anyone? Only thing I can do is go back and pull the battery connections to make it all stop.

[Purplefade]

I wouldn’t know how exactly to do it (on a BMW lol...) but I wonder what would happen if you removed the ignition switch all together and tried to hot wire it. That could/would rule out the ignitions switch and help to point you to a short maybe. If you were able to get it hot wired would it keep running when you severed that connection. Bit unorthodox I know, just kind of thinking out loud. Looks like you have a solid pin out, you should be able to come up with something.


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[andrewwynn]

You need to look up the wiring diagram and figure out which pins are live at which key position. You already replaced the switch so almost surely you have a short to hot on the run wire.

Basically your car hotwired itself.

Did you say 4.4? I would look into the voltage supply, I forgot the nickname IVR or something

[wpoll]

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

...Did you say 4.4? I would look into the voltage supply, I forgot the nickname IVR or something

IVM - Integrated Voltage Module.

I think these are only on the M62B44 and M62B48 engines... this fault is with an M54.

[andrewwynn]

Duh read the title.

Symptom of Short in a wiring bundle or internal fault of the ignition switch or any device sharing the common wires

[Siggy]

I do believe it's a short as well but being that electronics is not my strong point, it's going to take me some time to sort it out, with the help of others.

I will note that at one point, the ignition switch was unplugged and with the battery hooked up, everything was on. So the switch is unplugged, the key is in my pocket, and everything is on.

I'm terrible at finding and reading wiring diagrams on that free site. When you don't know what you don't know, it's a bit more of a challenge, but best I can tell, this is what the pin out looks like. The numbers on the left correspond to the pin number in the plug.

1. Signal Terminal 15 - Unloader Relay terminal 15 - Switched voltage at Position #2
2. Voltage Supply Terminal R - Fuse Terminal R - Switched voltage at position R
3. Not used
4. Not used
5. Voltage Supply Terminal 30 - Cable Shoe Output Fuse F105 - Constant Voltage
6. Voltage Supply Terminal 30 - Cable shoe output fuse F106 - Constant Voltage
7. Voltage Supply Terminal 30 -Fuse F3 - Constant Voltage
8. Signal, Terminal 50 -Electronic Immobilizer (EWS) DME Control unit - Switched at starting position
9. Voltage Supply, terminal 15 - Fuse terminal 15 - UNKNOWN BY ME
10. Signal Terminal 15 - Output stage, rear compartment blower - Switched at Position #2
11. Not used

To me, that has me looking at Pin#8. That's the only one, if I'm correct, that shows power at the run position. If the car is running with the key in it and I take the key out and it keeps running, in my mind (which could be wrong), that means there is still power on that wire.

That's where I'm heading right now. Does that sound like a logical path? Anyone know the route of that #8 wire? Or better yet, a method that would allow me to test that. Would I ohm it out against ground? That really doesn't do anything, does it? Measure voltage on it with the key on, then the key out (when it keeps on running?). I know there's voltage on it because it's running.

[Purplefade]

That may be your “solution”. I would suggest identifying all of the wires that energize at position 1 and position 2 and I would stub off of those with a long enough piece of wire that I could sit beside the car and reach them easily enough with a multi meter. Turn the car on and off until it acts up and then test your wires to see which one is live that shouldn’t be. Once you know that, you’ll have a color code that you can trace to the short in the loom.


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