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  #51  
Old 10-02-2021, 07:48 PM
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Just sometimes a few days before i get there
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  #52  
Old 10-02-2021, 09:43 PM
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The 21mm nut on the swing arm 18mm eccentric bolt is torqued to 165 Nm. Easily accessible.

Guide link eccentric ... 18mm nut and bolt ... 100 Nm, but I found it impossible to get a torque wrench in there and did that one by feel. Proper way would be with a torque extension. But before torquing, doing the toe adjustment, it will probably test your limits of contortion to do that with the wheel in place, but it is possible.

Need to jack the rotor to equivalent geometry when the car is sitting on the ground before torquing, so the bushings are centered (maybe not for your non-rubber, non-OE bushings?). Discussed in other places on here if in doubt.

If you want to keep it simple, rather than thinking you're going to hit exactly -1.7* on the camber (or whateve it is) you might try getting as low camber as possible (many do this, and can only hope to get close to the spec), so accurate camber measurement is not so critical. And use string alignment for toe adjustment. It will make you think, but if you like that, it can be done well.
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  #53  
Old 10-02-2021, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
You must have to drive a long way to get to the alignment shop.
I do my own alignments. I have both hub stands and smart strings. (Sadly, the hub stands aren't quite rated for the X5.) Ballparking takes almost no time, is useful for an initial gut check of the suspension, and makes the final alignment simpler.

The point of gut checking in *this* case is for the OP to try to diagnose his suspension issues. Aligning a car with broken suspension parts is pointless. If it were me, I'd replace basically everything in the rear based on what he's saying. But while he's trying to chase down the problem, ballparking buys him time.
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  #54  
Old 10-02-2021, 10:34 PM
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Great post!


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  #55  
Old 10-04-2021, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Ballpark is to get it in range of final adjustment. It's pointless to guess if you have a broken ball joint that won't allow adjusting then you need to do it twice.

You can tell pretty easily if you can get it to swing your desired value also it's very nice to have it close to zero toe for the drive to the shop on your new $1200 tires.
I agree. It's nice to get an initial alignment done before. I'm not sure what alignment shops are like where everyone else is, but the last time I went to an alignment shop for their "advertised price," I got charged an extra hour because the alignment was so far out. This was on a different vehicle that I did some suspensions upgrades on. Anything past an hr to make an adjustment gets charged extra. This apparently includes the time to roll the vehicle onto the rack and setup of the laser reflectors. That was crap and needless I wasn't too happy afterward--but what are you going to do when your vehicle is on the lift?...

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskewel View Post
The 21mm nut on the swing arm 18mm eccentric bolt is torqued to 165 Nm. Easily accessible.

Guide link eccentric ... 18mm nut and bolt ... 100 Nm, but I found it impossible to get a torque wrench in there and did that one by feel. Proper way would be with a torque extension. But before torquing, doing the toe adjustment, it will probably test your limits of contortion to do that with the wheel in place, but it is possible.

Need to jack the rotor to equivalent geometry when the car is sitting on the ground before torquing, so the bushings are centered (maybe not for your non-rubber, non-OE bushings?). Discussed in other places on here if in doubt.

If you want to keep it simple, rather than thinking you're going to hit exactly -1.7* on the camber (or whateve it is) you might try getting as low camber as possible (many do this, and can only hope to get close to the spec), so accurate camber measurement is not so critical. And use string alignment for toe adjustment. It will make you think, but if you like that, it can be done well.
Thank you for looking these up. I'm not sure how to get a torque wrench on the toe-adjust neither. I can only get a wrench in there. 120 ft lbs and 74 ft lbs respectively.

Yes, as for tightening anything with a rubber bushing, such as the upper control arms to the subframe, I jack up the one swingarm with a jack under the lower ball joint before torqueing as to not rip the rubber during articulation.
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  #56  
Old 10-04-2021, 04:45 PM
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As an UPDATE:
Here is my "ballparking" method of the rear axle. I got the swingarm bushes pointed correctly--which I think will correct my ride height, oddly enough.

In this photo here, the front of the wheel was at 189.9mm while the rear of the wheel was 189.1mm. So in this case, I'm toed outabout 0.4mm. I also ran some strings from rear wheels to front wheels--which is probably the least accurate, but the right rear was about 1/8th inch towed out while the left rear was maybe 1/16th toed out. I think this tells me my right rear needs to come toe in a bit.

I'll probably work on it again later tonight just so I'm not "car-less."

Just out of curiosity, when my rear end is jacked up, I can move the whole subframe rather easily with a pry bar....like super easy. I can watch it shift from the rear subframe bushings. -_- I guess theyre very shot. I ordered new subframe bushes and the $60 tool that makes it a breeze. Bad subframe bushes makes me think the thrust angle will never be correct until i put new ones in.
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  #57  
Old 10-04-2021, 05:11 PM
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Spirited Drive -- Now rear Camber Negative

Moving subframe will crab both wheels: their relative toe will stay the same. Since the alignment from the shop will be relative to the CAR best to get there sub bush replaced first and yet another reason to allign yourself until the bushes come.

You definitely don't want toe out that's what shreds tires. I tape a shim to the front of the fattest part of the sidewall on both front and back tires. That is about 24" on my car so for "string align" (on e53), I've used 1/16" spacer that is 0.15 or .15*60=9 minutes. It's right in the middle of factory spec but more than needed, I just like to error toward toe in vs. out. The laser guys can perfect it later.

To string align you have to measure front/back track and add half the difference to your shims, but by using 9' vs. 2' I've not had to compensate doing my square setup e53.
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 10-04-2021 at 05:20 PM.
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  #58  
Old 10-04-2021, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Moving subframe will crab both wheels: their relative toe will stay the same. Since the alignment from the shop will be relative to the CAR best to get there sub bush replaced first and yet another reason to allign yourself until the bushes come
Spend the money on the subframe bushing tool. It will make your life so much easier. You can sell it when you're done if you want. I've changed subframe bushings twice and can't imagine doing it without the tool. Worth every penny.
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  #59  
Old 10-04-2021, 06:05 PM
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So the method to get a torque wrench on is to use a torque adapter or extension.
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  #60  
Old 10-04-2021, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Moving subframe will crab both wheels: their relative toe will stay the same. Since the alignment from the shop will be relative to the CAR best to get there sub bush replaced first and yet another reason to allign yourself until the bushes come.

You definitely don't want toe out that's what shreds tires. I tape a shim to the front of the fattest part of the sidewall on both front and back tires. That is about 24" on my car so for "string align" (on e53), I've used 1/16" spacer that is 0.15 or .15*60=9 minutes. It's right in the middle of factory spec but more than needed, I just like to error toward toe in vs. out. The laser guys can perfect it later.

To string align you have to measure front/back track and add half the difference to your shims, but by using 9' vs. 2' I've not had to compensate doing my square setup e53.
Yeah..it'd be a waste of money to do an alignment twice.

I'm trying to understand why it's better to toe in rather than toe out. To my understanding, when torque is applied to the axle on a slightly toe out, it will pull it straight under "average use." Meaning, you spend more time on-gas than coasting/braking. But if you toe in, it will be more stable turning and wear the very outer edges of the tire.
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