Winter vs Summer tyres on X-drive - Page 5

nick325xit 5spd · #1 12-01-2021, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I think it is important to keep to experiences with an E53, at least a X5, rather than a sedan or two wheel drive etc. The experiences with other vehicles may not be applicable at all.

Going to have to disagree. A tire is a tire. You can adjust for fundamental handling characteristics.

And if you actually believed that, why do you think that the tire review video is relevant? (And to be clear, I do actually agree that the tire review video you shared was very good.)

bcredliner · #2 12-01-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd

Going to have to disagree. A tire is a tire. You can adjust for fundamental handling characteristics.

And if you actually believed that, why do you think that the tire review video is relevant? (And to be clear, I do actually agree that the tire review video you shared was very good.)

Looks like I should have been more clear. There was no intention of even implying the results of the controlled test are applicable to an X5. It was purely to post the difference between anecdotal opinions and a professional test.

What adjustments would you make if the tire you choose results in too much understeer?

If I had a Camaro I wouldn't go to a X5 forum to ask about the best tire for a Camaro. And I pay little attention to what tire works best on a Camaro when my interest is solely getting input on the best tire for an X5 on this forum.

nick325xit 5spd · #3 12-01-2021, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Looks like I should have been more clear. There was no intention of even implying the results of the controlled test are applicable to an X5. It was purely to post the difference between anecdotal opinions and a professional test.

What adjustments would you make if the tire you choose results in too much understeer?

If I had a Camaro I wouldn't go to a X5 forum to ask about the best tire for a Camaro. And I pay little attention to what tire works best on a Camaro when my interest is solely getting input on the best tire for an X5 on this forum.

You are radically over-indexing for differences between cars. If you look at conepacking, in the street tire classes where cars have lots of choices, the competitive people all end up on a very small set of tires (or even the same tire) on very different vehicles.

Yeah, if you have a set of fairly similar tires, direct experience is going to help differentiate. But that's at a point when you're talking subtle differences.

The fact is that most people haven't even used enough different sets of tires to have a valid opinion on whether a tire is good or bad. At best, they can say that the tire meets their expectations. But what is their expectation reference? Do they even know what understeer is? If they know what understeer is, how much of that understeer is caused by their driving style?

bcredliner · #4 12-01-2021, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick325xit 5spd

You are radically over-indexing for differences between cars. If you look at conepacking, in the street tire classes where cars have lots of choices, the competitive people all end up on a very small set of tires (or even the same tire) on very different vehicles.

Yeah, if you have a set of fairly similar tires, direct experience is going to help differentiate. But that's at a point when you're talking subtle differences.

The fact is that most people haven't even used enough different sets of tires to have a valid opinion on whether a tire is good or bad. At best, they can say that the tire meets their expectations. But what is their expectation reference? Do they even know what understeer is? If they know what understeer is, how much of that understeer is caused by their driving style?

You didn't answer my question. What would you do if the tires you have chosen cause too much understeer?

I don't view this as splitting hairs, far from it. I see it as information to help make an informed decision rather than just do what others do not knowing if your results will be the same.

I don't think it matters if they know what understeer is or not. If their driving causes understeer and the tires magnify understeer they may not know why but they will know they didn't like going into the ditch. A stock X5 is designed to understeer. I would never want a tire that would add to understeer.

We aren't discussing racing. That is entirely a different breed of cat and we would be talking about summer or race tires only. This discussion is about winter tires. If you are a serious racer you are aware of the sensitivity of width, size of tire, tire pressure, track conditions, alignment, weight distribution etc. have on handling. And likely the first place you would go to get the best tire input, if needed, would be to someone that does very well and has the same or very similar car, setup and similar HP/TQ.

andrewwynn · #5 12-01-2021, 04:56 PM

It off course is assumed that we are talking about tires on an X5 in the X5 forum.

The "dissenting voice" has a screen name based on 325 though also has X5 in their signature.

So: is your "bad experience" with Dunlop tires germane to the use on an X5? Or was that on a 325.

Different tires will be much different on different cars off course. What works great on an X5 could be total crap on 525.

nick325xit 5spd · #6 12-01-2021, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewwynn

It off course is assumed that we are talking about tires on an X5 in the X5 forum.

The "dissenting voice" has a screen name based on 325 though also has X5 in their signature.

So: is your "bad experience" with Dunlop tires germane to the use on an X5? Or was that on a 325.

Different tires will be much different on different cars off course. What works great on an X5 could be total crap on 525.

Have you ever compared the same tire across a bunch of different cars? I have. The characteristics of a tire remain consistent across different cars.

nick325xit 5spd · #7 12-01-2021, 10:57 PM

My basic point is that while apples to apples comparison has value, it is usually impossible to get a large enough sample size to reach a meaningful conclusion. And the argument that you make that you *can’t* compare tires across platforms is absurd.

andrewwynn · #8 12-02-2021, 12:33 AM

Pretty sure he said the opposite; that same tire across platform is different. Meaning that the same model tire will not be good on some model cars.

Just from the difference of 235 vs. 255 on the same car is enough to know that the same model tire on different cars is apples to oranges.

There are enough variables to say that a particular model tire can be great on an SUV and shit on a sedan that's a fact.

Tire Mfg spend 100s of millions to keep that a fact.

There is a subjective aspect of tire feedback that no matter how good they are "on paper" that will veto their use for any particular person. It could be exactly what I like about a tire that could be fingernails on a chalkboard to you. Facts don't care about feelings so I don't take offense at a subjective indifference to a particular tire.

I have empirical data such as g-pad data to back my understanding not just "I didn't like them" (which is a perfectly fine decision) it's just not objective.