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  #1  
Old 11-22-2021, 09:55 AM
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Winter vs Summer tyres on X-drive


Sorry, had to misspell tires (tyres).

X3? video?

Wow, I was interested in the video. Now I know why my X5 moved great during the Texas Feb '21 winter storm. I went down and up a very good size hill with no problems at all. I didn't even feel wheel spin!
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2021, 01:19 PM
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That's a great video saw that years ago. A big part of why i ride on winter tires year round. They used summer tires in this example but "all season" are not much better. I call them 3-season tires.
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
That's a great video saw that years ago. A big part of why i ride on winter tires year round. They used summer tires in this example but "all season" are not much better. I call them 3-season tires.
Going to have to *strongly* disagree with you on this one. All season tires are very much a compromise, but to suggest that they are not much better than summers in the snow is very, very wrong.

And before you jump all over me on this one, I'm going to note that our current street tires range from Blizzak WS-90s to Advan A052s, with a bunch in between.

Also, why run winter tires all year long? They wear very badly in warm conditions.
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:47 PM
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My description of barely better than summer tires is based on fact based observations including:

Sliding around on 2" of fresh snow as if I was in a 2wd car though I was in an X5.

Spinning the tires on wife's X5 at every gear change at full throttle if the road even has a slight mist on it.

Watching FWD car with "all season" tires polishing snow into ice.

(Where I could drive no problems at all barely spun the tires on the polished ice part of the road)

Total loss of traction when there are leaves on the ground.

I don't drive enough miles to worry about the faster wear in summer. The far far better grip on oily Chicago streets far outweighs any benefit of using "3 season" tires.

I do get that you can "get away with" using tires claiming to be useful all year, but with actual "studdless" winter tires, I have double the traction in many cases year 'round. Especially important: light bit of oil on fresh rain after a while of draught.

I wish they did that example video with "all season" vs. summer but I've lived it before. I was mind blown when I swapped wife's all season for well worn snow tires and had formidable traction on snow in spite of the tires being almost end of life.

(Hand me down from my car when I got a new set)
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:59 PM
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My X5 is getting new all season rubber soon. Still waiting on GMIII module repairs, hopefully is ships back today. The tread I'm looking is comparable to winter treads. We get good rain and freaky snow like the week long Feb storm. May even venture out far away in snow with all seasons. Slow and steady is better than being stuck going up a hill.
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2021, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
My description of barely better than summer tires is based on fact based observations including:

Sliding around on 2" of fresh snow as if I was in a 2wd car though I was in an X5.

Spinning the tires on wife's X5 at every gear change at full throttle if the road even has a slight mist on it.

Watching FWD car with "all season" tires polishing snow into ice.

(Where I could drive no problems at all barely spun the tires on the polished ice part of the road)

Total loss of traction when there are leaves on the ground.

I don't drive enough miles to worry about the faster wear in summer. The far far better grip on oily Chicago streets far outweighs any benefit of using "3 season" tires.

I do get that you can "get away with" using tires claiming to be useful all year, but with actual "studdless" winter tires, I have double the traction in many cases year 'round. Especially important: light bit of oil on fresh rain after a while of draught.

I wish they did that example video with "all season" vs. summer but I've lived it before. I was mind blown when I swapped wife's all season for well worn snow tires and had formidable traction on snow in spite of the tires being almost end of life.

(Hand me down from my car when I got a new set)
Snow traction of all season tires is highly variable. Many (especially higher quality) all season tires offer excellent snow traction, that is genuinely usable in the snow. The Continental DWS is a good example - tirerack tested it way back when as about 70% of the snow traction of a "performance" snow.

What you describe on your wife's car is garbage tires. What were they?

I will happily concede that the all season tire category contains a vast and varied array of garbage tires. But *good* all seasons are absolutely usable in reasonable snow conditions, without the noise, handling, and rapid wear issues that you get with using snows year round.

Again, we own Blizzaks, and have owned many other sets of snow tires. I'm not saying that snow tires aren't great. They are. Dumping the clutch in the iX at 4,000rpms and just launching out of the hole in the snow is hilarious. But it'll still go well enough on a set of decent all seasons. Whereas on any set of summer tires worth having, it'll just spin in place.
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2021, 04:24 PM
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Winter vs Summer tyres on X-drive

Wife's original tires were absolutely "garbage tires" they were also "all season".

I considered getting all season for wife's 50i as she is surely going to shred the winter sport tires I just bought but I realized how often Wisconsin roads have a little film of very slippery surface coat for about 4 months and figured I can reassess getting some summer tires next spring.

I know that tires without sipes are worthless in many cases that I drive rear 'round so I only use winter tires myself.

Try to brake on a metal construction plate when it's wet with "all season tires" (or a wet stop stripe for that matter). Winter tires have perfectly ok traction in those cases, all season do not.

If I really pushed cars on twisty roads like I have in the past in my Camaro and didn't far more often drive on oily asphalt, my conclusion would likely be different.

If you stop firmly from 30 on oily road you shouldn't have abs kick on and in my car that's the case. Wife's car with decent all season definitely will abs. (for a few more days until her new snow tires are mounted).

Mine is not an one size fits all scenario but if you fit into the same group as me:.

Drive under 1000 miles/month
Drive on oily roads a lot
Can opt to NOT drive on hot days (drive at midnight when the roads cooled off in summer)
Drive on wet leaf covered roads
Willing to seek out extraordinary deals
Live higher than 43 latitude.

You may find out advantageous to find a good winter tire vs. switch back and forth (and definitely better than all season tires no matter how good they rank in their class).

Wife's current all season are a highly rated tire even in "snow traction" but they spin effortlessly when the road is damp I wouldn't trust them with frost on the road.

Back to the extraordinary deals bullet; I paid about $640 for FIVE tires that normally would sell for $1300+ for four. But it took a couple weeks of searching regularly.

In the past I've even gotten better deals but for 60% tread tires. This time brand new.

640/[email protected] is amazing for high end snow tires.

I ended up with five because the first set had three. I couldn't find an exact match with just one tire so I bought a pair. In the past I've shredded at least one tire needed a replacement and now wife's and my car will have the exact same model tire so the spare could be used on either should a tire fall victim to a pothole etc.

I don't suffer from noise/handing/wear problems.

One set I had some strange peeling of some tread blocks but it didn't affect total longevity of the tire which wore right down to the wear bars.

My tires are not as soft as blizak which I would definitely not drive on past April. I also as mentioned get to decide not to drive when the heat is on e g 100 day I'll stay home and wait for sunset and make the commute after the sun goes down or after it rains and the road is wet and I have double the traction of the guy next to me.

I'm not denigrating the optional solution of summer/winter tires but I've been spared 3-5x of having a minor bumper hit had I been on all season or summer tires due to chance I had winter tires.

(Avoiding an accident because I happened to buy car with winters on it and no budget left to get Summers). Opened my eyes to the possibility that could be beneficial long term and for me it has for sure.

(And for the minority that fit into a similar class with me, it will benefit them as well so I share my case).
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Last edited by andrewwynn; 11-22-2021 at 04:32 PM.
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2021, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5chemist View Post
My X5 is getting new all season rubber soon. Still waiting on GMIII module repairs, hopefully is ships back today. The tread I'm looking is comparable to winter treads. We get good rain and freaky snow like the week long Feb storm. May even venture out far away in snow with all seasons. Slow and steady is better than being stuck going up a hill.

Way too low of latitude to copy my only winters but if I lived in tx I wouldn't drive summer tires as most of the reasons i use winter tires apply there. If you can find all seasons with some sipes for grip on oil especially if you drive though bigger cities regularly you'll be happy you did.
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2021, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewwynn View Post
Wife's original tires were absolutely "garbage tires" they were also "all season".

I considered getting all season for wife's 50i as she is surely going to shred the winter sport tires I just bought but I realized how often Wisconsin roads have a little film of very slippery surface coat for about 4 months and figured I can reassess getting some summer tires next spring.

I know that tires without sipes are worthless in many cases that I drive rear 'round so I only use winter tires myself.

Try to brake on a metal construction plate when it's wet with "all season tires" (or a wet stop stripe for that matter). Winter tires have perfectly ok traction in those cases, all season do not.

If I really pushed cars on twisty roads like I have in the past in my Camaro and didn't far more often drive on oily asphalt, my conclusion would likely be different.

If you stop firmly from 30 on oily road you shouldn't have abs kick on and in my car that's the case. Wife's car with decent all season definitely will abs. (for a few more days until her new snow tires are mounted).

Mine is not an one size fits all scenario but if you fit into the same group as me:.

Drive under 1000 miles/month
Drive on oily roads a lot
Can opt to NOT drive on hot days (drive at midnight when the roads cooled off in summer)
Drive on wet leaf covered roads
Willing to seek out extraordinary deals
Live higher than 43 latitude.

You may find out advantageous to find a good winter tire vs. switch back and forth (and definitely better than all season tires no matter how good they rank in their class).

Wife's current all season are a highly rated tire even in "snow traction" but they spin effortlessly when the road is damp I wouldn't trust them with frost on the road.

Back to the extraordinary deals bullet; I paid about $640 for FIVE tires that normally would sell for $1300+ for four. But it took a couple weeks of searching regularly.

In the past I've even gotten better deals but for 60% tread tires. This time brand new.

640/[email protected] is amazing for high end snow tires.

I ended up with five because the first set had three. I couldn't find an exact match with just one tire so I bought a pair. In the past I've shredded at least one tire needed a replacement and now wife's and my car will have the exact same model tire so the spare could be used on either should a tire fall victim to a pothole etc.

I don't suffer from noise/handing/wear problems.

One set I had some strange peeling of some tread blocks but it didn't affect total longevity of the tire which wore right down to the wear bars.

My tires are not as soft as blizak which I would definitely not drive on past April. I also as mentioned get to decide not to drive when the heat is on e g 100 day I'll stay home and wait for sunset and make the commute after the sun goes down or after it rains and the road is wet and I have double the traction of the guy next to me.

I'm not denigrating the optional solution of summer/winter tires but I've been spared 3-5x of having a minor bumper hit had I been on all season or summer tires due to chance I had winter tires.

(Avoiding an accident because I happened to buy car with winters on it and no budget left to get Summers). Opened my eyes to the possibility that could be beneficial long term and for me it has for sure.

(And for the minority that fit into a similar class with me, it will benefit them as well so I share my case).
I'm really, really curious what kind of tires are on your wife's car that have given you this really weird idea that all seasons are actively dangerous in normal conditions. Because every single thing that you describe to me as an attribute of "all season" tires is what I'd call an attribute of bad tires.

I'll even agree that the vast majority of all season tires are bad tires. After all, anyone who doesn't care about anything other than price is shopping for all seasons. But shitty tires are simply not a good gauge.

I've driven in Chicago both in the winter and summer. There's nothing about Chicago roads that stood out to me. Unlike, say, Michigan roads, which really stand out for the rough surface / obscene noise level.
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2006 Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison
2004 X5 3.0i 6MT
1995 M3 S50B32
1990 325is
1989 M3 S54B32

Hers:
1989 325iX
1996 911 Turbo


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  #10  
Old 11-22-2021, 06:09 PM
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Chicago roads are covered in oil. They are crazy slippery when it first rains after a dry patch.

I'll look up the current tires on wires car when I get a chance I just remembered looking up a review on tirerack.com and they were decently reviewed but in all season class.

The previous car when we bought had Walmart $75 tires. They were total trash.

Wife's current car is 50i. That's more critical to the relative loss of grip but the rear tires wear twice as fast as the front. They did ok six months ago only breaking traction full throttle shifts. When the ambient dropped and the tires got stiff they spin quite easily (again on her 50i).

I'm confident that won't be an issue when the snows are installed next week and I plan to take some before and after video to showcase the difference in grip.
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