Issue with alternator, engine, trans

[Supr4]

My car is an X5 E53 4.4i 2001 it's watercooled

[Bdc101]

Originally Posted by Supr4

My car is an X5 E53 4.4i 2001 it's watercooled

You should put that in your signature so we can all try to help better

[80stech]

If you got the alternator from an "alternator specialist shop" then for sure that is the place to go back to with the vehicle and have it checked. They can do all the tests very efficiently.

[Supr4]

Already did and he blamed the car

[80stech]

How do you know it's not charging? Has the battery been tested and connections checked?
I'm surprised that the alternator shop wouldn't diagnose the problem? Of course you would have to pay if it turned out to be something other than the alternator.

[Supr4]

With a voltmeter and with a USB charger with volt indicator.
But is that possible that alternator is defective if it's working (only while driving but not engine at idle except engine cold) with regulator disconnected? Can it be the ecu?

[StephenVA]

Starting & charging systems testing techniques
Without spending too much time on starting & charging systems testing techniques, here are a few quick tests to determine a battery issue, a charging system issue, or a primary wiring issue.

Skill Level: 2 + (read and follow instructions)
Tools required: Digital Volt Meter (DVM), battery terminal cleaning tool, and 8mm, 10 mm sockets and ratchet with extensions.

You need to read battery voltage before starting any test on an electrical system as it will influence the results of Starting, Charging, and electrical tests of any kind. (Note: battery must be fully charged, see chart below).

Step One: Get out a digital volt meter, Read battery voltage (Key off). Read voltage (Key on) at the following points Battery, under hood jump point, and at the alternator. You only need to determine if you have 12 volts at the alternator with the key on (BIG FAT WIRE). A simple handheld digital wave form tester will get you in the ball park when it comes to batteries. (Further discussion on these testers is for another engineering forum).
Step Two: You need to read the voltage at the BATTERY at idle, 1500, and 2500 RPM to determine voltage regulator function. Better still would be a Volt Amp tester (VAT-40 Image below) to induce a correct AMP load to read actual AMP/Volt output from the alternator and battery, as that is the only true testing method. Having a DVM that has min/max capability will make your testing easy.
Step Three: Remove and clean each and every ground in the trunk, jump point, and at the frame rail for the block (bad grounds = lots of electrical issues). Clean the starter/alternator cable connection under the car, just under the dead pedal.
Step Four: Failure to get correct output on running test means DEAD alternator (volt regulator, brushes, windings, etc.) Remove and bench test the unit or drag it to your local auto parts store for a second opinion (which will be worth exactly what you pay for it....)

Base line numbers
Battery Voltage should be 12.6+V (Key off) See chart below.
Battery voltage should be 13.5v - 14.5v on running tests (note large fluctuations at running RPMs is a SURE sign that the Volt Regulator is not doing its job. Smack with rubber hammer and retest. Rebuilt units have large variance of quality control from good 85% of the time to approx 50/50%.

NOTE: The exact charging voltage will vary according to the battery's state of charge, the load on the vehicle's electrical system, and temperature. The lower the temperature the higher the charging voltage, and the higher the temperature the lower the charging voltage. The "normal" charging voltage on a typical application might be 13.8 to 14.3 volts at 77 degrees F. But at 20 degrees F. below zero, the charging voltage might be 14.9 to 15.3 volts. On a hot engine on a hot day, the normal charging voltage might drop to 13.5 to 14.3 volts.

Note 2: TIS specifies alternator voltage as 14.3 +/-0.1 V. But that is measured at the alternator output post. The values seen using the cluster will be 0.5 V or more below the alternator voltage output.

Batteries surface charge.

What the heck is a surface charge?
When testing wet cell auto batteries, some will show a 12.xx Volt result, but as soon as a 100-150 amp load is applied, they drop straight down to 9.8V or lower. Classic example of a collapsed cell wall (internal short). This is why too many DIY and techs get stumped when they pull out a meter and say "It shows 12.xxV so it must be good”. NOPE, batteries are tested for voltage holds and AMP draw capacity as well as the ability to recover and recharge over and over again. Batteries are nothing more than an energy storage device. Their usage back in the 1920's allowed for a "self-starter" option, now days we take it for granted. In the future we will use the engine ignition system to fire off a cyl while disabling all other cyls (opening the exhaust valves) allowing for a start that requires no electrical/mechanical starter. A topic for a SAE publication but an interesting future none the less. The challenge is for the average DIY to approx. the load test with KEY OFF.

Solution: Set a volt meter to DC volts 0-25 scale or auto ranging if so equipped. Read and record voltage
Turn on everything in the car for 15 seconds:
Headlamps to high beam
Heater blower motor to high w/ A/C on
Seat Heaters
Rear Defroster (and rear seat blower if so equipped)
Interior lights
Radio
Fog lamps
Cigar lighter
etc, etc, etc

Read voltage after testing. You should see a drop off of .5-1.5Volts during the test and a slow rise back to 12.5V+ on a completely healthy and fully charged battery in 30sec to 1 min.
A battery that is DEAD, will show 9.8V or less and never recover until charged.
Battery Registration: There is NO battery registration required for proper operations in a E39 or E53 application.

Alternator testing tips
To quote another poster...

How to load the alternator at engine idle for alternator output tests:

Note: Alternator output should be tested with the engine idling under the following four loads after at least 15 seconds of idling (for the alternator to ramp up):
Turn the high beams on
And, turn the rear defroster on
And, turn the fan on (full force, I guess)
And, turn the wipers on (to the regular setting, I guess)

These loads should be left on while the alternator output tests are being performed.

Once access to the alternator is gained (access for the I6 is vastly easier than the V8):

• Check the voltage from the alternator #30 post and ground
o It should be the same as the battery voltage
• Now disconnect the harness connector to the alternator:
• Check voltage from terminal 15 and ground (field voltage)
o It should be the same as the battery voltage

More info: Another way to check alternator output is with an oscilloscope. Observing the "ripple voltage" pattern will tell you at a glance whether or not all the alternator windings are functioning. A "good" pattern should look like the top of a picket fence. If any of the humps are missing, it means one or more of the windings is grounded or open, or there's a bad diode. Most battery/charging system testers also have a test function that can detect bad diodes.
Ripple testing with a DVM:

ANOTHER QUICK CHECK FOR BOSCH ALTERNATORS

One way to check the integrity of the alternator and diodes on Bosch alternators is to check the voltage readings at the D+ (blue wire) terminal and B+ terminal. The voltage reading should be the same at both terminals. A difference of more than one volt would indicate faulty diodes and the need to replace the alternator.
Tips link: https://www.diyauto.com/manufacturer...ion-by-bluebee

Volt Drop Testing (Image below) will show you issues with grounds and wiring problems. Read the text and test a few spots to determine if your car has clean connections.
https://www.engine-light-help.com/voltage-drop.html

Are you having other electrical issues? Alternative issues: Ignition Key switch failure, wiring junction box rusted (see water leaks under passenger seat (E39), Water standing in trunk under the battery (E53) and the normal wiring broken connectors, grounds), etc....

Tip Sites for more info:
https://www.aa1car.com/library/2002/cm10220.htm
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=510579 (Everything you wanted to know about BMW starting and charging systems for DIY)
Need a Video? https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...d&action=click

Helpful?

[Attacking Mid]

Originally Posted by StephenVA

Starting & charging systems testing techniques
Without spending too much time on starting & charging systems testing techniques...

I realize this was just a quick and dirty post, but when you get a chance, could you post something a little more comprehensive?


J/K ..... excellent post!

AM.

[StephenVA]

sure as soon as the OE poster gives us more details to better understand why the French can't have new alternators and why a rebuilder does not have the capability to bench test a SPINNING alternator output (AMP, and Volts) across a given RPM band.

50% of rebuilds are just a cheap regulator a set of brushes and a spray and wash. Results: 50% fail on install. Can you get three rebuilds that do not function? YES YES and More Yeses.

By the way, I have posted this string apporox 25 times over the years as everyone who experiences a failed starting/charging system, thinks they are the first one in 20+ years. Ha ha

[Supr4]

But why does it work at cold with regulator connected and also hot but only with regulator disconnected? It can't be something else than the alternator?

Oem alternator are Valeo or Bosch and they all are refurbished I didn't ask bmw garage here because if even the refurbished ones are 700-800euros bmw would be 1300e I can't pay that much for an alternator... It's the watercooled one.