engine oil

[cocoabrova]

Originally Posted by JCL

*snipped*

What is the value of the LL-98 rating in 2009, in your opinion? It has been obsolete for 8 years, since LL-01 came out, which was prior to LL-04, and any oil that has an eight year old formulation would be pretty suspect. Or is it a newer formulation that they haven't retested to the more recent standards? I just don't get why they would be using that spec and advertising it, unless they couldn't meet the newer ones. I don't look for the LL designation myself, since BMW isn't calling for it in any of my recent owner's manuals, and many oil manufacturers didn't bother to certify to it. That didn't mean that their oil couldn't meet the newer LL standard, just that they didn't see the point in paying for the test. When an oil company purposely advertises that they meet an outdated spec, I wonder about their motivation and thought processes.

Well BMW says to use API SH or higher SAE rated oil in place of the "BMW high-performance synthetic oil," so I guess any full-synthetic with those ratings or higher would be sufficient.... but for myself, the Castrol just doesn't cut it....

[JCL]

Originally Posted by cocoabrova

Well BMW says to use API SH or higher SAE rated oil in place of the "BMW high-performance synthetic oil," so I guess any full-synthetic with those ratings or higher would be sufficient.... but for myself, the Castrol just doesn't cut it....

That may have been the recommendation when your model was manufactured, but they are now recommending API SM in new vehicles, so I would use that as a minimum. SH came out in 1994. SM came out in 2004, and is several generations better than SH, SJ, or SL.

SH - 1994 Gasoline Engine Service - Category SH was adopted in 1992 to describe engine oil first mandated in 1993. It is for use in service typical of gasoline engines in present and earlier passenger cars, vans, and light trucks operating under manufacturers’ recommended maintenance procedures. Engine Oils developed for this category provide performance exceeding the minimum requirements for API Service Category SG, which it is intended to replace, in the areas of deposit control, oil oxidation, wear, rust, and corrosion. Oils meeting API SH requirements have been tested according to the American Chemistry Council (ACC) Product Approval Code of Practice and may utilize the API Base Oil Interchange and Viscosity Grade Engine Testing Guidelines. They may be used where API Service Category SG and earlier categories are recommended. Effective August 1, 1997, API SH cannot be used except with API CF, CF-2, CF-4 or CG-4 when displayed in the API service symbol, and the C category must appear first.

SJ - 1997 Gasoline Engine Service - Category SJ was adopted in 1996 to describe engine oil first mandated in 1997. It is for use in service typical of gasoline engines in present and earlier passenger cars, vans, and light trucks operating under manufacturers recommended maintenance procedures. Oils meeting API SH requirements have been tested according to the American Chemistry Council (ACC) Product Approval Code of Practice and may utilize the API Base Oil Interchange and Viscosity Grade Engine Testing Guidelines. They may be used where API Service Category SH and earlier categories are recommended.

SL - 2001 Gasoline Engine Service - Category SL was adopted to describe engine oils for use in 2001. It is for use in service typical of gasoline engines in present and earlier passenger cars, sports utility vehicles, vans and light trucks operating under vehicle manufacturers recommended maintenance procedures. Oils meeting API SL requirements have been tested according to the American Chemistry Council (ACC) Product Approval Code of Practice and may utilize the API Base Oil Interchange and Viscosity Grade Engine Testing Guidelines. They may be used where API Service Category SJ and earlier categories are recommended.

SM - Introduced on 30 Novermber 2004 - Category SM oils are designed tp provide improved oxidation resistance, improved deposite protection, better wear protection, and better low-temperature performance over the life of the oil. Some SM oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as Energy Conserving. They may be used where API Service Category SJ and SL earlier categories are recommended

[cocoabrova]

Crazy info JCL, thanks for the clarification. This should be stickied somewhere too...

It looks like the API SM rated oil is the same as the BMW LL-04, and the API SL is the BMW LL-98 in the Elf brand that I'm using, so needless to say I'll be using the BMW LL-04 now....

[JCL]

Originally Posted by cocoabrova

Crazy info JCL, thanks for the clarification. This should be stickied somewhere too...

It looks like the API SM rated oil is the same as the BMW LL-04, and the API SL is the BMW LL-98 in the Elf brand that I'm using, so needless to say I'll be using the BMW LL-04 now....

The API ratings and the BMW LL ratings do not correlate, except that some generations of the standards came out around the same time. They are very different ratings.

The API is an industry standard test, used by all oil companies. the American Petroleum Institute sets the standards, and all oils sold in North America are tested against the same standard. Automakers use the API spec as a widely recognized and very controlled standard. There are additional standards in Europe.

Several engine manufacturers decided on their own that they wanted to drive oil standards higher, particularly in respect of longer oil life, or deposit control, or piston wear. The engine manufacturer that I work with developed private oil test standards related to deposits on ring glands in one specific engine series, as an example. That test doesn't mean anything for even the other engine models from the same manufacturer.

BMW developed a correlation between oil life and certain oil characteristics, and published the BMW LL (long life) oil standard in 98, updating it in 2001 and 2004. You can see why from the API history above; when the BMW LL-98 spec was being developed, the current API spec was six years old. Oils changed a lot during that period. The BMW LL standard is not a complete standard in my opinion, it is simply an endorsement as to engine oil life in a BMW test engine. It doesn't cover the rest of the quality standards covered by API tests.

The BMW LL spec is entirely optional, many oil companies simply ignore it because they don't see a marketing benefit for paying to achieve that particular certification. Big oil companies tend not to like every engine manufacturer having their own spec, it is difficult and expensive to keep them all current and some of the standards are opposed. The oil companies that do go after the manufacturer's private tests include those that need the credibility because they are relatively small and unknown, or those that cater to a particular market segment such as BMW or Mercedes owners. The same oil company may get a Euro oil certified (like Castrol) and not bother with the American Castrol because it is too much trouble. That does not mean that the American Castrol in that example is not as good an oil, although many like to buy German Castrol because it does get certifed. The key point is that because it is an optional test, the absence of a BMW LL certification does not mean that the oil is lower quality. It may be, but not related to whether or not it has the LL certification. I agree that the German Castrol may use a different base stock, but it doesn't meet any higher published standards, so I use whichever Castrol I can obtain, and don't worry about it.

Since the API standards have advanced so much, with the latest being API-SM, the BMW LL tests seem to have fallen by the wayside. Even the BMW oil bottles at my dealership don't always have the BMW LL designation. While my previous owner's manuals called for a BMW LL spec oil, none of my recent vehicle's manuals make any reference at all to an LL spec, they have instead gone for the more recent API SM spec and left it at that. I suspect that the BMW LL specs will simply fade away over time in North America.

And that is why I am very suspect of a small oil company advertising that they meet a BMW LL-98 spec. I would stay a long way away from that oil, it seems very suspect, likely based on mid-nineties technology.

[cocoabrova]

Okay now I got it... Forget about anything to do with LL ratings and stick to the API ratings, gotcha finally. Yes I will be staying away from them although I thought Elf was a fairly well-known large company, in Europe anyway....

[JCL]

Nothing wrong with Elf as a company, and they are large in Europe. They are not as common in North America. I was referring above more generically to smaller oil companies, and not trying to diss Elf specifically.

Originally Posted by cocoabrova

I have started using another brand though, Total Quartz Energy 9000 5W40 with the BMW LL-98 rating

The Elf site says that that particular oil now has a BMW LL-01 rating, so you may be dealing with old stock that has been sitting in a warehouse. The same Elf site notes that they have other oils that meet the API SM standard, and which coincidentally meet the BMW LL-04 spec. I would look to those oils.