Poll on Transmission Flush at High Miles

[m5james]

Originally Posted by RDAvena

Dropped the pan and replaced filter and fluids.

68,000 Miles
Amsoil AFT used and I had the same moss growing on my magnets as the one above. Scratched off that "Lifetime" sticker and added an extra rare earth magnet to the pan just in case. At 110,000 now and no issues. Spirited driving, manual shifting, etc. At 125,000 I will do the same.

When the bean counters start doing engineering work that is when parts fail.

I completely agree about the bean counters

For fluid, people have had success over the years also using Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle (dino oil) and Valvoline MaxLife (Synthetic). Its also been shown that the only difference between a normal Dexron III and Esso is the extra additive Esso uses to extend the servicing intervals. I'd rather save my $3k transmission by spending $80 in fluids and change it every 50k instead of letting the bean counters and engineers use me as a guinnea pig. I've read countless stories of failing trannies due to lack of maintenance and/or following BMW suggestions, but I have yet to read (or personally experience w/ my own cars) about a failed tranny due to "over" maintenace by not following their recommendations. Everyone can do what they want, but I know what's worked for me since my 1st BMW purchase in 98 when I read these same stories back then.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by DoubleA

Flushing the tranny fluid when due can only be beneficial, unless you put some cheap or not recommended oil or perhaps you dont put the require amount. How in the world a tranny flush could destroy it ? Guys please wake up and get yourself a coffee before making assumption that make no sense at all.

See the links in post #9. A transmission flush is a frequent trigger for transmission failure in a transmission that is otherwise performing well. That is why several of us who have worked in shops and have done overhauls on transmissions won't do transmission flushes on our own vehicles, unless the fluid is burnt. That doesn't mean that we don't believe in preventative maintenance, just that changing the transmission fluid often introduces new problems. You can check the links on this board as well for this phenomenon. The posts usually start with "I can't believe my bad luck, I just changed my transmission fluid and now my transmission has failed even though...." The transmission shops know all about this, it isn't in any way a secret.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by RDAvena

Dropped the pan and replaced filter and fluids. 68,000 Miles. Amsoil AFT used and I had the same moss growing on my magnets as the one above. Scratched off that "Lifetime" sticker and added an extra rare earth magnet to the pan just in case.

The metal particles aren't what will bite you, it is the material from the clutch packs and bands. That material isn't metallic. It is what usually is dislodged when the fluid is changed. Anything large enough to settle in the pan is large enough to be caught by the filter, in general terms. I agree it looks bad in photos of a transmission pan, but it isn't like it is hurting anything.

[DoubleA]

It's the first time in my life that I heard changing tranny fluid would lead to fail the transmission, it's only my first BMW vehicle so I wont brag to have a ton of experience on it, but it's not a logical explanation that a tranny fail after a flush. The issue is probably more related to a negligence in maintenance or the fact that the tranny was already having symptom or about to fail. I mean I had over 25 cars in my life and never had a tranny fail not a single one, but I have always did maintenance in all my car and drove them accordingly. I dont know maybe in today's car there is something mystical that my mechanic brain cannot figure out ! The is always a rational explanation about these things. I'm going to continue to maintain my car & truck in du time, it's not like anyone have to flush the tranny every months, there is a life span for any lub that goes in the vehicle following the manufacturer specification should be on our priority if we want to keep our car & truck in good working condition. My maxima is getting to it's 10th anniversary and one of the first thing I did when I bought the car brand new is switch the fluid to synthetic. I have been rebuilding the car for the last 3 years ( I made it a show car ) and when I had the tranny disassemble, the shop owner told me my tranny was like brand new, so they only replaced the seal since they where opening it. I dont know maybe BMW vehicle goes against the laws of physic, no matter what people says, I'm a mechanic myself so unless someone throw a rational explanation I will flush my tranny fluid at 120K.

Have a great day gentle man.

AA

What do I know about car > take a look at this:

[Mikedd]

Originally Posted by JCL

See the links in post #9. A transmission flush is a frequent trigger for transmission failure in a transmission that is otherwise performing well. That is why several of us who have worked in shops and have done overhauls on transmissions won't do transmission flushes on our own vehicles, unless the fluid is burnt. That doesn't mean that we don't believe in preventative maintenance, just that changing the transmission fluid often introduces new problems. You can check the links on this board as well for this phenomenon. The posts usually start with "I can't believe my bad luck, I just changed my transmission fluid and now my transmission has failed even though...." The transmission shops know all about this, it isn't in any way a secret.

That quote is exactly what we are trying to determine in our own un scientific way. My Indie with 25 years on BMW swears that he has never seen a transmission fail from a fluid change (That wasn't shot to begin with). Poll so far (small sample) indicates that no one has had their high mileage tranny fail with fluid change? More responses would be good. Now watch, I,m going to flush and drop the pan next week and the tranny will fall out on Christmas day!

[X5Flyboy]

did mine at 104k with the tune-up, ditto differentials - spark plugs showed oil, so valve gaskets(16) and both valve cover gaskets done

[HPIA4v2]

I respect anybody opinions on this matter cause honestly I don't have any good data to backup or debunk anybody opinions.

In any scientific (or an attempt to be scientific) data has to be both accurate and precise (as well as abundant to have any conclusion).
My hypotesis on people having failure after trans flush would be the tranny is already on the way out. so without complete autopsy one can simply blame it on tranny flush, it's always what you did last before failure analysis. trust me I am a S/W engineer and all bugs usually related to the last changes or addition, so that logic clearly has merit.

FYI, I flushed my tranny @42K(you can search around here) now my X5 @60K no problem so far. So draw your own conclusion and do what makes you comfortable.

Mikedd knock2 on wood bro

[RDAvena]

Originally Posted by JCL

The metal particles aren't what will bite you, it is the material from the clutch packs and bands. That material isn't metallic. It is what usually is dislodged when the fluid is changed. Anything large enough to settle in the pan is large enough to be caught by the filter, in general terms. I agree it looks bad in photos of a transmission pan, but it isn't like it is hurting anything.

As stated, the extra magnet is in there "just in case". If said metallic material did not pose a threat to plugging the passages, solenoids, and check balls in the valve body then they would not have been included from the manuf.

[X5Sport]

Never even got to 42k before the 6sp auto transmission failed, so never got to the 1st suggested fluid 'change point'. Awaiting diagnosis of exactly what has failed and then the fight with BMW UK over this issue. At a minimum I expect them to supply any replacement tranny parts free of charge, even if I have to pay for a proportion of the labour. Not happy!

[m5james]

I'm sorry to hear that, I know that's gotta be frustrating as hell that you've got such little mileage and already are having to cross this road. I remember when I 1st joined these forums and was speaking w/ Michelle about the problems w/ her car, her mentioning that the early (prefacelift) X5's and all their problems. I couldn't help but disagree because its a much closer engine to what we share in my 740iL. I've read about problems w/ the M62 and the 5spd auto, but IMHO those are the high mileage cars that maybe haven't ever received the tranny flushes that I would have done every 50k. Sadly I've read of more problems w/ people in your exact situation w/ the 6spd where it failed before it even got to my preferred 50k fluid change mark. BMW and ZF share their transmissions w/ plenty of other makes and models, so the 6spd definately isn't exclusive to us. The one thing I think MIGHT (just guessing, so no flaming people) be exclusive to us is the lifetime tranny fill fluid that is used. I wonder if the problem from the get go is the fluid is already incompatible from the start...there really isn't a better explanation, other than poor build quality, for a trans to fail so prematurely. This might be a stretch, but if I was currently the owner of the 6spd auto, I'd be on Google and Wikipedia finding out what other vehicles are using the same ZF trans, if they're using the same "lifetime" stuff BMW is using and/or just go ahead and change the trans fluid this very minute to something we already know works....Redline(syn), Valvoline MaxLife(syn), Castrol Multi Import(dyno) or even just good ol' Dexron III (see my previous post about this). Unless the owner is still under warranty, I'd be changing my 6spd's fluid out today since your luck couldn't get any worse considering the amount of problems people are already having w/ pre 50k tranny failures as is. Just my .02.