Intermediate Levers issue on 06?

[anerbe]

Update - no luck!

The first morning, the car threw codes, and I was told they had nothing to do with the Intermediate Lever problem. They did a fuel test and said no ethanol was present. The car at the time had a little gas left, so they thought that could contribute to the problem. They threw in a 1/4 tank, and started the car and said they haven't had the issue since. They also reset the whole computer system, as all my computer settings are reset.

About piston slap noise, foreman said this is normal on the 4.4 V8's.

I told them the problem happens when the engine starts revving down to normal idle, and they also said it couldn't be the eccentric shafts, because the shaking wouldn't resolve itself when you turn off and restart the car.

No mention of the susp. inactive error. Did a quick check on suspension and pass rear side rides about 10mm higher than the driver side.

Who knows. I felt bad the demand they keep the car there, because I've got a real good relationship with the dealership. They said they couldn't process any tear-apart with 1. SIB outside of production timeframe, 2. codes don't match up with SIB and 3. unable to duplicate issue after reset and added gas. They recommend as soon as I have the issue, to bring the car directly, and I will try to videotape the car in the morning.

If there is any other SIB/2006 model repair known, that would be great. Thanks for your help guys! It looks to be an issue that is known to illude people, and I don't want to press to hard. If the car really has the issue, I'm sure it will present itself sooner or later.

[X5 Meister]

Sorry to hear about all the trouble. Here's my 2 cents:
1. Videotaping is a GREAT idea. Didn't think of that one.
2. Definitely have the phone # of the SA on your phone and the moment it happens again, get to him ASAP.
3. Post a new thread asking for any 2006 owners to chime on that have had the intermediate levers problem. Maybe ask the admin to post it as a sticky for a month?
4. Don't forget to post your car model, engine, date of production and mileage in the thread.
5. Ask killcrap and weasel if they might be able to dig up some 2006 models that have had the issue and maybe help you out that way.

Hope this helps some.

[anerbe]

What do you know - dealer unable to reproduce for a week. Had the car for about 4 days now.

This morning, 12 deg overnight, start the car. I have my camera taking video of the startup as I've been doing evey morning. "Normal" noise of vibration during the high RPM section. After about 45 secs, the RPM's start dropping. Car starts wobbling and the lights start flickering. Thinking it's not going to throw a code, I turn off the camera, as it's been doing this every morning (no code, no dealership). Right after I turn off the camera, the SES light comes on. BINGO. I turn back on the video recorder, and show the SES light flickering and the engine sounding gnarly.

Making sure I don't mess up the code and perhaps erase it, I ended up driving to the dealership like this - had to take all side roads, as the car was seriously misfiring and had pickup like a 4 cylinder.

Parked the car right in front of the dealership still running and had the techs drive the car directly to the back to pull the codes.

Tech came back with a sheet showing the DME values. Sheet read high negative single digit numbers for each cylinder. Turning off and on the car, the reading showed low negative numbers. The techs think it's a DME issue, and says it will probably need replacement. Techs and shop foreman claim that the car still does not have Intermediate level issues, because whenever they've had the problem and replaced them, the issue would not disappear during restart.

Video of the code just starting to go off after the RPM drop from 900 rpm. Midway through, you can hear the lugging of the engine, and see some interior light flashing.

MVI_1690 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[anerbe]

just talking out-loud

the only reason they won't even look into the intermediate levers is because the fault disappears upon restart.

does anybody have a technical reason why the rough idle disappears when restarted if it's an issues with the intermediate levers? the techs say all the problems they've seen with the levers, there is still a rough idle/stumbling after restart, since it's a hardware problem. they say that faults that reset themselves on restart are often electrical issues. Killcrap, any ideas to push this?

The dealership may find it hard to justify a diagnostic regarding some engine work without direct codes related to the issue, which isn't available on my MY. I understand why, and it may take a couple of trips and multiple part replacements (and CPO deductables) to get this figured out. I can't believe the DME would only act out during initial cold start under 20 deg, and reset itself without hickup.

I would like to really document this process to make sure others have a clear symptom description and diagnosis for this seemingly common problem on the 4.4 N62.

[killcrap]

they are morons. if they had any clue, they would know that when the engine managment detects a severe misfire, it cuts out that cylinder fuel injector. until the next restart. When the engine restarts, the levers and shafts have warmed up a bit, and may have come back into tolerance for the engine management system to sense no uneven cylinder filling. so it does not cut out that injector again.

I quote from the ME9.2 Engine Management document. Page 34

The ECM will also protect the Catalytic Converters by deactivating the injectors.
If the ECM detects a “Misfire” (ignition, injection or combustion), it will selectively deactivate
the Final Stage output transistor for that cylinder(s). On the ME 9.2 system, there are eight
individual injector circuits resulting in deactivation of one or multiples. This will limit engine
power, but protect the Catalytic Converters.

If the cylinder misfire count exceeds the predetermined threshold the ECM will take the following
measures:
• The oxygen sensor control will be switched to open loop.
• The cylinder selective fault code is stored.
• If more than one cylinder is misfiring the fault code for all individual cylinders and for
multiple cylinders will be stored.
• The fuel injector to the respective cylinder(s) is deactivated.3

Show this to them, dont let them make any thing else up.

[anerbe]

killcrap, your help is invaluable.

I will push that the ECM is running as design, and it really shows that there is an issue with a component during cold starts, and it isn't an electrical gremlin that likes cold weather.

I will print this up and show it to them, minus the first 8 words ;-). I'll be sure to include the words if this turns into a debacle. At the moment, they are trying to get a DMU replacement approved. I'll again push the intermediate levers with your notes. This time around, they know there's an issue and have an error, and if they still decide to go the DMU way, i'll make sure that they keep it there days after and prove to me that the idle is perfectly normal.

[JS_4.8]

anerbe, I've read through this entire thread and it looks like its been quite a battle to get them to replace these intermediate levers. hopefully with killcrap's info they will finally move forward

question for you - i am having the same sort of misfire, car shaking, and SES light on issues recently with my 2005 4.8is on cold morning start ups. My car has 89K miles on it. I believe the build date is 10/04 (will go out tomorrow morning to check) - it looks like I fall within the parameters of the SIB as far as build date, but I have no more warranty. Do you know if they will perform the SIB even if it out of warranty?

Thanks and best of luck

[killcrap]

Originally Posted by JS_4.8

anerbe, I've read through this entire thread and it looks like its been quite a battle to get them to replace these intermediate levers. hopefully with killcrap's info they will finally move forward

question for you - i am having the same sort of misfire, car shaking, and SES light on issues recently with my 2005 4.8is on cold morning start ups. My car has 89K miles on it. I believe the build date is 10/04 (will go out tomorrow morning to check) - it looks like I fall within the parameters of the SIB as far as build date, but I have no more warranty. Do you know if they will perform the SIB even if it out of warranty?

Thanks and best of luck

How would he know? He's can't predict the future. If your relationship is good with your dealer they will cover the repair 100%. they may ask you to pay 50% parts or 50% labor.. If you had CPO don't count on it. If you complained about misfires before on coldstart, while under warranty, you should mention it. And they should cover the repair.

[anerbe]

^ I agree 100%

Having warranty issues with both MB and BMW recently, there is no clear yes/no coverage when out of warranty. It's all a crapshoot (no pun intended )

Had problems with the MB, dealership declined coverage, called MBUSA, which called the dealership, and they couldn't work something out after 3 weeks of discussions. Thought I was SOL, then called the dealership again, and we finally worked out something, where the dealership called MBUSA to pretty much split the repair between the 3 parties involved. All documented on mbworld to talk it through, which always helps out by sharing experiences and tips with others.

Only way you can really have a foot to stand on is if you have ever discussed a previous issue with the dealership, and they've recorded it. Now I always go over my car with a fine-tooth comb, and any type of vibration/stumbling/error code/etc, I always bring it up, whether it can be fixed at the moment or not. If the car changes characteristics in any way, something is different or off. The part in question could ultimately fail years down the road, but you had an inclination on the issue way before, which will definitely help in a discussion post-warranty.

Good luck!

If I had to predict the future, if you have brought up any odd idling/engine vibration/cold start stumbling in the past, you'll probably pay 50% of the repair from the dealer if you purchased the car originally from there.

[JS_4.8]

Originally Posted by killcrap

How would he know? He's can't predict the future. If your relationship is good with your dealer they will cover the repair 100%. they may ask you to pay 50% parts or 50% labor.. If you had CPO don't count on it. If you complained about misfires before on coldstart, while under warranty, you should mention it. And they should cover the repair.

I wasnt asking him to predict the future.

I meant it more as a general question........If you are out of warranty, does the dealer have to honor and perform a SIB at no charge, similar to how they would on a recall.

I see now there is no black or white answer on this, so I am just gonna have to give it a shot