Transmission Reliability

[kally]

a friend has a 500 ml merc - his mums car the tranny went at 40k klm ! out of warranty like a 03 model they emailed mercedes benz germany they covered it at no charge found mechanical failure of the trans.

my question is has anyone with a bimmer had that ?

another friend had a 03 m3 they apperently had a chasis problem were it comes apart slightly at the back end (dunno something like that)- $10k repair bmw wanted nothing to do with it- the guy pushed hard and I think they covered half.

my brother had a suburau rs turbo liberty 120k 2 owners making tapet noise from 90k - factory recall - full top end rebuild - thats the sign of a great company (im sure that people have had probs too but thats such a good story wanted to share)

I still love the x5 and if my budget permited would by a new one or rrs but its kinda frustrating that such a large company wouldnt offer some kinda help for this - seems like theres no goodwill when it comes to these probs and they definatley shouldnt happen in cars of this quality - and it doesnt seem like to much of an isolated incedent.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by ncsucarjock

Well, and the other issue I'll state here is...you've got to pay to play. Should BMW do something about transmissions that fail before 50k? Sure, I think so. Should they do something about transmissions that fail at 100k? Well, I'm not sure. Over 125k? Definitely not. If you want reliability, go by a damn Hyundai (used to be toyota...but...no more... or a Honda).

If you want a premium new German mobile, you'd better be prepared to maintain it. And though the old MB's and BMW's also lasted a long time, they have some pricey bits on them too. Maintaining and fixing one of these cars is going to be more expensive than your average Asian Appliance.

It really is your choice. So a tranny fails every 100k miles, so what? $6k to fix (presumably), that's one years worth of $500/month car payments. No way can I pay off a new X5 in one year at $500/month. Heck, I can't lease a decent one at $500/month, and then I'm *significantly* mileage limited.

Will I be happy when I have to do the tranny on the X? Probably not. Will I accept it as normal, and have money in the bank to pay for that? Yes. Is it cheaper than a new car? Yes. In order to get to where buying something newer to me makes sense, I will have to spend $8k/yr on the X for two years running. Then, and only then, can I justify the monthly payment, the increased insurance, the increased tax bill, and the hassle of finding another new vehicle that I want. The X might have some pricey things break. No doubt. But, once fixed, they're generally good for a long time after that. So even if you hit a bad streak, you've still got a long way to go before you hit 8k/year.

Just my thoughts...and I drove my 37k miles last year...

I'm sorry, I think you are drinking the BMW Kool-Aide and rationalizing their incompetence. Expected regular maintenance is one thing, but replacing a transmission that should last 150k miles is another (especially after BMW has basically called it a "maintenance-free" transmission in not recommending fluid changes). BMW is not so premium (special) that they can get by with incompetence in their choices regarding transmissions. A $75k Lexus LX is premium too (you have to "pay to play' to own one as well), yet I promise you Lexus expects their major components to last at least 150k miles ...

[papasmurf]

Originally Posted by ncsucarjock

I"m sorry you don't have the V8. One, I can't drive a manual, due to knee issues. 5 speed isn't an issue, so if you want to compare apples to apples, you have to do an automatic 3.0...

And then...lets put 6000# behind it, and head for the mountains. I think you'll find the 3.0 becomes very labored with that, manual or automatic. As I tow between 3000-7000 miles a year with that load... That's a pretty crucial measurement for me.

Back to the original posters question about changing fluid, this is all I can say. I've been through mechanics school...

No fluid lasts forever. They *all* break down. We know that transmissions are one of the most expensive items in a car, and yet, we dont' want to perform basic fluid changes because manufacturers have trained the public that "maintenance" is bad, and should be avoided - a perfect car would run perfectly forever, with zero maintenance. After coming back down to earth from the space dream, let's realize that all fluids - cooling, oil, transmission, differential, transfer case, power steering fluid, *all* degrade. There are recommended intervals for most of these. In my opinion (and this is *just* my opinion) regular fluid changes of all fluids are crucial to longevity. This does not mean I advocate 3000 mile oil changes, but I do recommend using some common sense.

I use this rule when it comes to automatic transmissions:
1) fluid breaks down, more in heavy use situations. Changing every 30,000 - 50,000 miles with a good quality compatible synthetic is a must do, regardless of what any manufacturer says.

2) fluid "flushes" are BAD juju. This is when they use a machine to pump your old fluid out, and new fluid in. The power for doing this is provided by the pump on the machine. I've heard of many instances where this procedure has damaged transmissions, probably due to excessive pump pressure.

3) If you disconnect the transmission line at the cooler, and start the engine, using the transmission pump to pump out fluid, this is an acceptable means of "pumping" the fluid out. This will allow a more complete fluid change, but it takes a lot longer, because you need to stop every 1/2 gallon (two quarts) and refill the transmission pan. On the BMW X5, at least on my V8, this is not easy to do. I prefer to just drop the entire pan, remove the filter, check for any excessive metal or sediment (and at 50k, I found none), replace the fluid, and call it good.

I will change again at 100k miles, and probably 150 and 200. For the record, for those that have changed fluid every 30-50k religiously, I've not heard of a transmission dying. If there's is one that has failed, I'd be pretty surprised, and willing to blame it on an improperly made part or assembly.

By and large though, transmissions are pretty simple devices. Sure, they have more gears, and electronic controls, but the basics have not changed since the first automatics came out more than 50 years ago. And regular fluid changes were required for decades before this whole "non-maintenance" scheme started appearing in the 90's.

For the record, I also change my engine oil every 10k miles, and the differential fluid every 50k, and the transfer case fluid every 50k as well. All of these are synthetic fluids, if they were conventional, I'd change more frequently, but I don't like conventional fluids, and dont' run them in any of my vehicles.

Also worth noting, changing your brake fluid every 2-3 years is part of required maintenance, and so is changing your antifreeze about the same time.

Do all this, along with plugs, filters, keeping it clean, attending to any leaks, and you'll be shocked how long a well maintained vehicle will run.

First trans in my X5 died on the previous owner in under 50k miles. Personally, I'm doing fluid changes at either every 30 or 50k.

[Werewolf]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

I'm sorry, I think you are drinking the BMW Kool-Aide and rationalizing their incompetence. Expected regular maintenance is one thing, but replacing a transmission that should last 150k miles is another (especially after BMW has basically called it a "maintenance-free" transmission in not recommending fluid changes). BMW is not so premium (special) that they can get by with incompetence in their choices regarding transmissions. A $75k Lexus LX is premium too (you have to "pay to play' to own one as well), yet I promise you Lexus expects their major components to last at least 150k miles ...

Maybe they are building the cars for leasing not purchasing. If you're at 100K miles, chances are that you're the 2nd or 3rd owner of the SAV and BMW couldnt care less about your repair bills.

[faz]

I have learned that longevity and reliability are not the traits that BMWs are known for. I love the brand now (used to hate it before getting our 07 328i), but I do not recommend it to family/friends who are looking for a reliable car. In fact, I steer those friends away from this brand unless buying new.

Funny thing is, in motorcycling world, a BMW motorcycle with 60-70k miles on it is 'just broken in', and 100k+ miles is an expected 'no-worries' lifetime of their hard working 1100-1300 cc engines.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Werewolf

Maybe they are building the cars for leasing not purchasing. If you're at 100K miles, chances are that you're the 2nd or 3rd owner of the SAV and BMW couldnt care less about your repair bills.

IMO, if this were the case, they'd be $15-30k vehicles when new, and not $50-70k+ vehicles when new. Whereas part of the initial cost is name, a great majority of it is supposed to be build-quality, and reliability of major components. I think all BMW owners/lovers are willing to give BMW a pass on some of the regular maintenance costs/issues (and that is somewhat generous of us no matter if we were the original buyer or not), but there is simply no excusing the failure of major components before at least 150k miles on a luxury, well-built automobile.

[Werewolf]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

IMO, if this were the case, they'd be $15-30k vehicles when new, and not $50-70k+ vehicles when new. Whereas part of the initial cost is name, a great majority of it is supposed to be build-quality, and reliability of major components. I think all BMW owners/lovers are willing to give BMW a pass on some of the regular maintenance costs/issues (and that is somewhat generous of us no matter if we were the original buyer or not), but there is simply no excusing the failure of major components before at least 150k miles on a luxury, well-built automobile.

That's so 1980s. (sarcasm off) and Luxury doesn't mean well-built (see early Ferraris or Audis) In fact I would argue that each generation of BMW from say the 1980s onward, build-quality has probably gone down (defined as longevity of engines, transmissions, major electricals, stuff that needs to work for the car to drive)

BMW gets about 50% of the cars value in the 1st 3 years in the leases(~50% lease residuals) meaning the rest of the car's life is worth about 50% of selling price. Maybe they CPO it and get the other 50% or maybe the car was sold and the 1st owner eats the 50% on trade-in. Honestly it is the 1st owners that BMW cares about. Only if the reliability problems are SO bad that people stop buying / leasing new BMWs does BMW start to care.

Build quality can be great for 5 years and then drop off with some BMW owners thinking build quality is great if they trade out of a car every 4 years.

I don't disagree with you re: the acceptability of BMW tranny failures. See some of my earlier posts on trannies. My point is that BMW with its strong brand and loyal consumer base decided to make its vehicles more disposable (planned obscelence), forcing its customers to re-up and get another BMW or make repairs using BMW parts more frequently. MB does the same thing.

I don't think getting the awesomeness of a German car is worth a tranny repair so I now own a Lexus as my other car. I bought it for $10K and put 30k miles on it (130k miles total on the car) and no problems. I've been lucky but I cant see doing that with a German car of the same vintage.

People vote with their wallets. If enough people move away from BMW and it costs BMW enough money, then they'll change. Not before

[Wagner]

I never put more than 50,000 miles on any BMW I've owned.

[faz]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

Whereas part of the initial cost is name, a great majority of it is supposed to be build-quality, and reliability of major components.

This is where I think a lot of people are confused. I have not seen anywhere, in BMW's own marketing or advertisements even, that 'reliability' has been mentioned.

Performance, luxury, driving dynamics, ... but never reliability. (sad for us, really, but true.)

[Quicksilver]

Here's a little info for you transmission junkies........
http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-foru...intenance.html