Transmission Reliability

[Quicksilver]

And your friend the "Master BMW Mechanics" word is law?
How are you or anyone else round these parts going
to hold BMWNA to a higher standard? Whatever truth
there is to be told will only fall on deaf ears spoken here.

As I said if the product as described by your Master BMW Mechanics
doesn't live up to your expectations why not move on and get
something that fits you expectations regarding reliability.
That's what I would do........

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

And your friend the "Master BMW Mechanics" word is law?
How are you or anyone else round these parts going
to hold BMWNA to a higher standard? Whatever truth
there is to be told will only fall on deaf ears spoken here.

As I said if the product as described by your Master BMW Mechanics
doesn't live up to your expectations why not move on and get
something that fits you expectations regarding reliability.
That's what I would do........

Is your word law?

Using your rationale, we'd turn the other cheek, and just be happy to hand over our money while being taken advantage of in every case where something or someone is performing at "less than adequate" levels while not being accountable enough to provide a fair remedy. A person can BOTH want to keep a product, and demand that the maker of that product do a better job in the manufacture and support of the product while also being a loyal, good customer. In fact, I'd say such customers are often the best ones to have as they provide honest feedback which helps to drive good companies to be better companies, and lagging companies who just want profits at any cost out of business.

Look, if you are happy with your experience with BMW X5's, that is fine. But the thread title is about "Transmission Reliability." It is a right, and good thing for people to post their concerns here while also contemplating what BMW should do (and may very well do with enough pressure) to help correct obvious flaws in one of their components and in their methods for maintaining/addressing said component.

[JCL]

My thoughts on transmission failures have been included in (many) previous threads, some of which Quick has linked in this thread.

A couple of thoughts:

Why does everyone seem to think that changing the transmission fluid will extend the life of the automatic transmission? Documented failures here haven't been due to burnt (overheated) fluid, but rather due to torque converters, electronic sensors, reverse clutches, software, etc. None of those would be improved by changing the fluid, and if changing the fluid dislodges any sediment then in fact changing it would hasten those failures.

If anyone is buying an X5 planning on 500 k km service life, they are dreaming IMO. The engines will probably be fine. The software and electronics, however, will sideline the vehicle long before the engines wear out.

BMW have never promised that the transmissions will last your lifetime, or that they will last the vehicle's lifetime. They have said that the fluid will last the transmission's lifetime. So far, that has been pretty accurate, given the lack of failures attributable to fluid breakdown.

I am with Wagner. I have purchased five BMWs in recent years, and didn't keep any of them more than 80,000 km (50,000 miles). Personally, I sell them after a few years so that kids and others can buy them used, and then spend their money on nuisance repairs. I buy BMWs new because they aren't expensive for what I get. If BMW spent more money making the transmission good enough to last 500,000 miles, I wouldn't buy the cars in the first place because they would be too expensive. They have an appropriate level of durability for the price point.

We are picking on BMW a fair bit in this thread, but they aren't even BMW transmissions. They are built by ZF and GM, two companies that makes some of the best automatic transmissions in the world. Sure, BMWs will be obsolete in a few years, same as most other brands. That is the price we pay for the constant consumer demands for more power, lower emissions, more electronic options, more technology, and so on. Does anyone else remember driving vehicles that didn't have reverse cameras, PDC, DSC, 8 speed automatics with lock up torque converters and adaptive shift algorithms? It wasn't that many years ago, yet people are still expecting the same reliability they got from cars that did not have those features.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by JCL

I buy BMWs new because they aren't expensive for what I get. If BMW spent more money making the transmission good enough to last 500,000 miles, I wouldn't buy the cars in the first place because they would be too expensive. They have an appropriate level of durability for the price point.

We are picking on BMW a fair bit in this thread, but they aren't even BMW transmissions. They are built by ZF and GM, two companies that makes some of the best automatic transmissions in the world. Sure, BMWs will be obsolete in a few years, same as most other brands. That is the price we pay for the constant consumer demands for more power, lower emissions, more electronic options, more technology, and so on.

I respect your opinion, and think you make good points regarding the advanced technology in today's cars causing much of the problems. However, I can't go with your logic regarding BMW's price-point justifying transmissions that only last 50-100k miles without a significant number needing replacement. Lexus LX's and GX's cost just as much as X5's, and their transmissions are quite superior. BMW's should be too. The fluid may indeed be lifetime and not be the cause of the failure's, but that does not excuse BMW for not doing a better job covering the other failures that basically demand a person replace the whole transmission before 150k miles. That's absurd. Moreover, the fact BMW doesn't make the transmission in no way excuses them. They still put the transmission in, and put their name on the vehicle (Toyota, as I understand it, doesn't make the throttle part that is the reason behind their recall either, but they aren't ducking their responsibility). Anyway, if we were just talking valve cover gaskets or thrust rod bushings, that'd be no big deal, but the transmission should be much more durable on a $60K+ SAV than they are on the BMW X5. And if they will not consistently last up to 150k miles, BMW should either demand the supplier improve their product, or cover at least half of the costs of a new transmission when ANY X5 transmission fails under normal use before 150k miles ...


AND Quicksilver: I agree that posting on here will not pressure BMW to change their policy regarding the transmission. This board is just a steam-release valve that can help those with trouble to both find solutions, and comfort. The formation of a website and Twitter account could ratchet up the pressure on BMW, but I think the best avenue is the legal one in which enough signatures are signed to an official complaint that BMW realizes they had better invest more in their "goodwill," and less in their spin/excuses when it comes to the transmission issues ...

[JCL]

Originally Posted by willgabriel

I respect your opinion, and think you make good points regarding the advanced technology in today's cars causing much of the problems. However, I can't go with your logic regarding BMW's price-point justifying transmissions that only last 50-100k miles without a significant number needing replacement. .....

Earlier on in this thread you suggested that any reasonable person should expect BMW transmissions to go longer than 150,000 miles. I am not sure why you picked that number, since it is well over the warranty that BMW offers, but in any case you are now suggesting that BMW transmissions only last 50-100 k miles. There are a lot of X5 owners with more miles than that on their original transmissions that would disagree with your conclusion that 50-100 k is the life of a BMW transmission.

[willgabriel]

Originally Posted by JCL

Earlier on in this thread you suggested that any reasonable person should expect BMW transmissions to go longer than 150,000 miles. I am not sure why you picked that number, since it is well over the warranty that BMW offers, but in any case you are now suggesting that BMW transmissions only last 50-100 k miles. There are a lot of X5 owners with more miles than that on their original transmissions that would disagree with your conclusion that 50-100 k is the life of a BMW transmission.

Actually, I said a reasonable person should expect a BMW transmission to last at least 150k miles before failing especially considering BMW has said they need no special maintenance (no fluid changes, etc). Otherwise, indeed many people never have a problem with their X5 transmission, but the one's who do have problems seem to have them anywhere between 30-100k miles. This observation does not invalidate the first suggestion. In fact, if BMW would extend their warranty coverage (or at least partial coverage) for the problematic transmissions to 150k miles, that would pass the reasonable person test, IMO.

[Quicksilver]

Why not write BMWNA regarding this issue and get back to us with
their answer. I suspect if they are reasonable people perhaps they
will agree with you. Either way I believe there are some of us that
would be interested in their written response to you concerns......

One suggestion. Please express your concerns the same way you
posted in this thread. Your position as you laid it out so far
doesn't seem to have a lot of support so I would be interested
to see how they respond.

Originally Posted by willgabriel

Actually, I said a reasonable person should expect a BMW transmission to last at least 150k miles before failing especially considering BMW has said they need no special maintenance (no fluid changes, etc). Otherwise, indeed many people never have a problem with their X5 transmission, but the one's who do have problems seem to have them anywhere between 30-100k miles. This observation does not invalidate the first suggestion. In fact, if BMW would extend their warranty coverage (or at least partial coverage) for the problematic transmissions to 150k miles, that would pass the reasonable person test, IMO.