Added 4 qts. of oil! Where's it going?

[JCL]

Originally Posted by m5james

I6's have a funny flat area under the oil cap, so looking at the oil where it just sits and puddles there ins't a good gauge to see if the engine has sludge, mustard looking deposits, etc.

I agree with the above, and I know that you made a distinction between sludge and emulsified oil (condensate) but it may be worth qualifying that traditionally, the emulsified paste (cheeze whiz, mustard, paste) isn't called sludge. I think of sludge as being black, and containing combustion byproducts, soot, acids, etc. That paste can solidify and can block oil passages, etc. It was a real problem on certain engine designs some years ago. It is caused by chemical interactions in the oil, and within the lubrication system. Sludge is not a common problem with BMW engines. It is most often used as a scare tactic by the sellers of engine cleaning products.

Sludge (the black kind) is hard to clean out of an engine, since it can harden. In comparison, the white/yellow condensate can be cleaned out by hot oil changes, without any additional additives, in many cases.

Because of the risks you note above relating to adding other products to the oil sump, I would stay away from them and simply change the oil once or twice before considering any oil system cleaning products.

[m5james]

Are you kidding me? I know you know your stuff JCL, and I respect your opinion most of the time, but sludge is DEFINATELY a problem within BMW's...spend some time over in the E39 M5/540 and E38 740 boards. Extended oil servicing intervals is one thing, but people putting in the wrong weight, getting cheap oil changes from Jiffy Lube using dyno instead of synthetic has caused all kinds of problems for the penny pinchers over there. BMW isn't a penny pinchers vehicle.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by m5james

Are you kidding me? I know you know your stuff JCL, and I respect your opinion most of the time, but sludge is DEFINATELY a problem within BMW's...spend some time over in the E39 M5/540 and E38 740 boards. Extended oil servicing intervals is one thing, but people putting in the wrong weight, getting cheap oil changes from Jiffy Lube using dyno instead of synthetic has caused all kinds of problems for the penny pinchers over there. BMW isn't a penny pinchers vehicle.

OK, let's narrow the discussion. Sludge problems were evident on some 1998-2002 Dodge/Chrysler models, 1996-2001 Toyota models with one specific V6 engine and one specific 4 cylinder engine, certain 1997-2004 VW/Audi 1.8T engine models,and certain 1998-2003 SAAB models with one engine. Those problems were systemic, and related to engine design.

What I meant was that the design of various BMW engines, and specifically the X5 models that are the subject of this forum, has not been linked to sludge problems. Sludge can occur with any engine if maintenance recommendations are completely ignored, by using drain intervals much longer than the manufacturer recommends, or by not using the correct oil. That doesn't make it a BMW problem, it makes it a maintenance problem.

I am sure that the aging E38 and E39 fleets have their share of owners that do not maintain their vehicles correctly, but that isn't the same as saying that the engine is predisposed to sludging, particularly the 6 cylinder that was under discussion.

Since we were discussing condensate, do you agree that given traditional definitions of sludge, that semi-solid condensate produced through emulsification is not the same thing, given how easily it can be removed through an oil change?

[m5james]

The M62 in my 740iL,the 540i, the S62 in the M5, and the M62TU in the X5 are basically the same block. I agree, it is mostly a maintenance problem. I do remember that the early M5's also have terrible EGR and carbon problems causing sludge, but apparently from 2001 and on it was fixed. I guess I was trying to kill two birds w/ one stone mentioning that poor/improper oil choices and lack of maintenance will hurt all cars, including the I6's that we're discussing here.

[JCL]

Sludge Examples:

E46, inline 6 cylinder, extensive engine sludge apparent. Found on another forum. This particular engine went 60,000 miles (96,000 km) without any oil or filter changes. This was the result. This illustrates the difference between sludge from greatly extended (abusive) maintenance intervals vs the condensate or 'cheese whiz' that many X5 owners have noted under the oil filler cap.

[m5james]

Yummy...pudding!!

Oh, I love people who buy BMW's to look like they have two nickels to rub together, then treat them like this...I'm not going to name names, but if they can't afford to maintain and fix things that are wrong, they need to be sold off to someone who will.

[killcrap]

Originally Posted by m5james

Yummy...pudding!!

Oh, I love people who buy BMW's to look like they have two nickels to rub together, then treat them like this...I'm not going to name names, but if they can't afford to maintain and fix things that are wrong, they need to be sold off to someone who will.

its just a car.

[m5james]

I realize that, and I've said the exact same thing before when people automatically assume that just because it's a BMW part that we should pay out the ass for it. On top of BMW parts ironically costing more, they also require more maintenance in my opinion. I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, but the maintenance of my 270k Chevy vs my 95k, 136k, and 198k BMW's is like night and day, and failures aren't nearly as catastrophic either. Until I bought a BMW V8, I've NEVER heard of engine seizures because of an oil seperator. Proof to the nieve people who make the blanket statement that "you always get what you pay for" are simply wrong.

In my last sentence on post 54, I said neglecting any car will have consequences.

[fulltilt]

Everything JCL said. When my oil cap was covered in the yellow stuff after a CCV failure, I pulled the valve cover to fix the gasket, and it looked as good as I could have hoped for under there. The CCV feeds into an isolated area just under the cap. It's misleading.

I had a feeling that the yellow would not be back on mine already (<2K miles since CCV and oil change). You know, because I'm special I guess? But I just went and checked. None under the cap, but I pulled the dipstick, and there was a lump of the stuff. CRAP! At least I live in Texas, though we are supposed to get a cold snap tomorrow!

BTW, I replaced only the CCV, cleaned the lines out, and replaced the valve cover gasket. Total for parts was $150.

[fulltilt]

As an update to the topic of using oil on this thread, I am 3000 miles since my CCV change and oil change and I had to put in two quarts today. That is pretty disappointing.