X5 4.4 - Sludge in engine and oil filter housing... help!

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Does that mean I am at risk of having my warranty denied because I change my engine oil more often than they recommend?

Unlikely, if you use an engine oil and filter that meets BMW specifications.

[X5 Meister]

What the hell is wrong with you? Read and re-read post # 92 at least 50 more times. There's the answer to your question.

Originally Posted by sunny5280

If it's not supposed to be "opened" then why would BMW recommend it be "opened" at 100K miles?

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

What the hell is wrong with you? Read and re-read post # 92 at least 50 more times. There's the answer to your question.

I read it before I initially replied. And I just re-read it on your recommendation. I fail to see why BMW would deny warranty coverage based on changing the transmission fluid.

The only reason given is that they would deny it because it was "opened" (I assume this means the fluid was changed) based on the false premise it's not supposed to be "opened".

[JCL]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

What would be the reason for BMW to deny a warranty claim on the transmission?

In the example you are proposing, the transmission fluid is presumably changed prior to 100,000 miles, by a non-BMW shop (since BMW shops are unlikely to want to do it, it being a non-recommended procedure and all).

If the transmission failed soon after this, most manufacturer warranty adjusters would pin the blame on the fluid change, which makes it more of a service warranty issue (quality of service work) vs a parts warranty issue (original parts manufacturing defect issue). Think about it. The burden of proof is on the service shop that did the repair to prove that they didn't initiate the failure. They were the last to touch it. What many owners don't realize is that their transmission isn't in any way guaranteed to run 100,000 miles (if that is in fact their warranty period). It is guaranteed not to evidence problems caused by the original manufacture of the parts, for that term. I am leaving out the prepaid maintenance work here, if that applies, and focusing on the warranty itself.

In the event of a failure, your comeback would be to whomever performed the service work, with the claim that their work initiated the failure. You likely have a warranty claim, just not with BMW. Most shops will guarantee their service work for one or two years. This is precisely why many shops will decline to change the transmission fluid even when asked, unless they have the owner's agreement that a subsequent transmission failure is not claimable.

[X5 Meister]

You are answering your own question yet you don't realize it.

As I said before, I don't know for certain, but one can certainly at least imagine the possibility that ...

1. You have a transmission that says lifetime fill on it, or 100,00 miles, whatever.
2. BMW doesn't want you to screw with it and open it.
3. You decide to change the fluid x times between 0 and 100,000 miles.
4. It craps out for whatever reason.
5. BMW looks at it and notices that someone's opened it.
6. BMW checks their records which shows that it wasn't opened by BMW.
7. Heads get scratched.
8. Now, because BMW doesn't know what you did to it when you opened it up, which again is something they didn't want you to do in the first place, it seems they have a pretty good reason to at least speculate that you didn't know what you were doing and busted it.

Again, I have no idea if this would ever happen, but it certainly isn't random speculation. They produced a pretty sophisticated device which 99% of people don't understand how or why it works or how best to maintain it and they don't want you to maintain it. They will maintain it for you...at about 100,000 miles. Given all the speculation and quite a bit of experience from others on the board that shortly after a maintenance like that it will crap out, it seems to me your best protection is to buy a 1 year extended warranty and if it does break they fix, or rather replace it. They certainly can't blame you for not adhering to their maintenance schedule.

Electronic components are typically sealed for this exact same reason. Break the seal and then want free warranty repair? Good luck chuck.

Originally Posted by sunny5280

I read it before I initially replied. And I just re-read it on your recommendation. I fail to see why BMW would deny warranty coverage based on changing the transmission fluid.

The only reason given is that they would deny it because it was "opened" (I assume this means the fluid was changed) based on the false premise it's not supposed to be "opened.

[X5 Meister]

Clearly I type slower than JCL. Damn.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

Clearly I type slower than JCL. Damn.

Used to be 100-120 wpm. Not sure now. As an aside, it is probably why I don't understand the need for tablet computers (another thread currently running).

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

You are answering your own question yet you don't realize it.

As I said before, I don't know for certain, but one can certainly at least imagine the possibility that ...

1. You have a transmission that says lifetime fill on it, or 100,00 miles, whatever.
2. BMW doesn't want you to screw with it and open it.
3. You decide to change the fluid x times between 0 and 100,000 miles.
4. It craps out for whatever reason.
5. BMW looks at it and notices that someone's opened it.
6. BMW checks their records which shows that it wasn't opened by BMW.
7. Heads get scratched.
8. Now, because BMW doesn't know what you did to it when you opened it up, which again is something they didn't want you to do in the first place, it seems they have a pretty good reason to at least speculate that you didn't know what you were doing and busted it.

It's unlikely they'd deny the claim because the fluid was replaced but because the work was performed at a non-BMW facility. This isn't unique to replacing the transmission fluid.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

It's unlikely they'd deny the claim because the fluid was replaced but because the work was performed at a non-BMW facility. This isn't unique to replacing the transmission fluid.

Irrelevant. They (BMW) would (likely) deny the component (transmission) claim.

You could conceivably have a service work claim against the shop that did the work, but it doesn't matter if it is a BMW shop or an independent. In either case, we are not talking BMW warranty, but rather service warranty. Dealer service warranty is not the same thing as BMW factory warranty, which was the subject.

[X5 Meister]

This statement is pure fiction or fantasy, you decide. You have ZERO idea whether they would accept or deny it. And frankly THAT'S MY POINT. We are not talking about a $50 part here that they will waive the cost of without blinking an eye. We're talking in the neighborhood of a $6100 + tax transmission. So why take the risk?

Also do the math:
Filter $55
Gasket $32
Plug + washer $5
Fluid 9.5 quarts @ $170 / gallon ==> need 3 gallons = $510
Oil transfer pump $20

Conservative total w/5% tax = $653.00

Versus
1 year/12,000 mile BMW powertrain plus extended warranty = $1340

So you can change it twice or just buy a warranty for the same amount for a year. Something to think about.

Originally Posted by sunny5280

It's unlikely they'd deny the claim because the fluid was replaced but because the work was performed at a non-BMW facility. This isn't unique to replacing the transmission fluid.