X5 4.4 - Sludge in engine and oil filter housing... help!

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I sent him an e-mail in December asking for his maintenance recommendation document and that is in the document he sent me. Since he is quite emphatic that he does not want his maintenance document posted on the internet as he does not want any out-of-date copies floating around, I assume what he sent me in December is still an active recommendation of his... at least as of December, 2009.

P.S. I just checked the document he sent me, from which I took that quote. It has a "revised" date of July 2009.

The point is it's based on dated information. Whether the current document says essentially the same thing is irrelevant. His opinion on the matter was formed over seven years ago.

Meanwhile the manufacturer has since changed their policy and now recommends the fluid be changed every 100K miles.

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I sent him an e-mail in December asking for his maintenance recommendation document and that is in the document he sent me. Since he is quite emphatic that he does not want his maintenance document posted on the internet as he does not want any out-of-date copies floating around, I assume what he sent me in December is still an active recommendation of his... at least as of December, 2009.

P.S. I just checked the document he sent me, from which I took that quote. It has a "revised" date of July 2009.

Damn, I guess I am a slow typer as well.

My copy is even more recent...

[X5 Meister]

If you take this advice, and I personally highly respect Mr. Miller, then you should also realize this is no drain and fill job. It needs to be done at the right temperature, in the right sequence, in a environment that needs to be far cleaner than for a basic jiffy lube oil change, the transmission must be cycled in a specific manner. It needs to be meticulously investigated for leaks, etc. This is no chip shot. Just an FYI.

Originally Posted by Penguin

I can see the arguments on both sides, but at the end of the day I think I'll go with Mike Miller's advice, simply because I've got a lot of faith in his experience and expertise:

"The short answer for the modern BMWs with “lifetime fill” ATF: Change it and the filter at least every 60,000 miles using ONLY the factory BMW proprietary ATF."

He might be wrong, but from what I can see his track record on other topics seems to be rather good.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

Oh what the hell:

• Had you or your mechanic changed your transmission fluid at any time prior to that transmission valve body failure? No.

The vehicle had approximately 85K on it. To my knowledge the fluid had never been changed (though I bought it with 80K on it). My mechanics cost on the part from BMW was $1,800. My mechanic ordered it directly from ZF (we have a local distributor here in Denver) at a cost of $550. He passed that cost along to me with no mark up. After the work was completed the problem was fixed.

My mechanic knows his stuff and goes out of his way to treat his customers fairly. This is one example.

Glad to hear it. I like to think I treated my customers fairly as well.

So, you had a transmission failure at 85k that a fluid change did not precipitate (as far as anybody knows). Now, the second question was do you or your mechanic think that regular fluid changes would have prevented the valve body failure? (sorry, I don't know the failure mode, or I could form an opinion)

[X5 Meister]

How in God's name you don't understand my point I just don't know.

Think of it like the nav computer. They seal it and don't want anyone screwing with it. Doesn't matter who. Not you and not an indy. If you, your indy or Indiana Jones decides to open it up to 'fix' what ain't broken and it then breaks you cannot expect them to foot the bill.

No more. I'm done here. On to the who has more belly button lint thread...

Originally Posted by sunny5280

I can make an informed reason why they would deny it if they did. And, it's likely the reason would be because the fluid was changed at a non-authorized BMW service facility and not because the fluid was changed. This would likely apply to almost any other type of service you might do on the vehcile.

It's well known that in order to avoid this potential problem you have an authorized BMW service facility perform all service while the vehicle is under warranty. As I said already: This is not unique to changing the transmisison fluid. As a matter of fact it has little to do with changing the fluid (other than that was the work performed).



You don't. If you want the transmission fluid flushed while it's under warranty then take it to an authorized BMW service facility.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

The point is it's based on dated information. Whether the current document says essentially the same thing is irrelevant. His opinion on the matter was formed over seven years ago.

Meanwhile the manufacturer has since changed their policy and now recommends the fluid be changed every 100K miles.

Well, at the end of the day, I'll still take Mike Miller's opinion. From what I have seen, he knows his stuff. Frankly I think it is unjustifiably insulting to him to flatly state that his opinion was formed seven years ago, is based on dated information, and that "Whether the current document says essentially the same thing is irrelevant."

Aren't all the opinions stated in this thread based on the same "dated information," since we obviously do not have long-term statistics on the newest transmissions?

Are you seriously suggesting that posters on this thread have more data, feedback, or information on BMW transmissions than Mike Miller?

In any case, when I do not have enough information or experience to make a definitive analysis on my own, I have to pick someone to believe. And in this case, I pick Mike Miller.

Others can choose someone else if they feel they know more than Mike in this area.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

If you take this advice, and I personally highly respect Mr. Miller, then you should also realize this is no drain and fill job. It needs to be done at the right temperature, in the right sequence, in a environment that needs to be far cleaner than for a basic jiffy lube oil change, the transmission must be cycled in a specific manner. It needs to be meticulously investigated for leaks, etc. This is no chip shot. Just an FYI.

Again the implication of the work being done incorrectly. Which is a real possibility. Which says nothing about it being a problem if the work is performed properly.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Well, at the end of the day, I'll still take Mike Miller's opinion. From what I have seen, he knows his stuff. Frankly I think it is unjustifiably insulting to him to flatly state that his opinion was formed seven years ago, is based on dated information, and that "Whether the current document says essentially the same thing is irrelevant."

Aren't all the opinions stated in this thread based on the same "dated information," since we obviously do not have long-term statistics on the newest transmissions?

Are you seriously suggesting that posters on this thread have more data, feedback, or information on BMW transmissions than Mike Miller?

In any case, when I do not have enough information or experience to make a definitive analysis on my own, I have to pick someone to believe. And in this case, I pick Mike Miller.

Others can choose someone else if they feel they know more than Mike in this area.

I am thinking this:

1. The manufacturer recommends the fluid be changed at 100K miles.
2. My mechanic recommends the fluid be changed. Though I don't know what his recommend interval is.
3. JCL and Mr. Miller both say there's slight/minimal risk.
4. I have seen no supporting data to show a correlation between changing the tranmission fluid and subsequent transmissions failure.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Penguin

Are you seriously suggesting that posters on this thread have more data, feedback, or information on BMW transmissions than Mike Miller?

I hear that there is a mechanic in Denver Colorado who is pretty good.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

How in God's name you don't understand my point I just don't know.

Think of it like the nav computer. They seal it and don't want anyone screwing with it.

The problem is they recommend you "screw with it" at 100K miles. That's where your reasoning breaks down. What part of that are you not understanding?