X5 4.4 - Sludge in engine and oil filter housing... help!

[JCL]

New questions for Sunny:

I wondered idly how many posts had been made in this thread, so I looked up your posting history. Practically all posts are on this topic, but you did post that you had a valve body failure in your 2000 X5. Sorry to hear, it sounds like it was expensive, and it was out of warranty. Valve bodies don't typically fail in normal use, unless they get clogged. So here are the questions:

Had you or your mechanic changed your transmission fluid at any time prior to that transmission valve body failure?

If so, do you think the fluid change could have contributed to that early failure? If not, do you think that changing the transmission fluid would have extended the life of the valve body?

Just wondering.

[Penguin]

I can see the arguments on both sides, but at the end of the day I think I'll go with Mike Miller's advice, simply because I've got a lot of faith in his experience and expertise:

"The short answer for the modern BMWs with “lifetime fill” ATF: Change it and the filter at least every 60,000 miles using ONLY the factory BMW proprietary ATF."

He might be wrong, but from what I can see his track record on other topics seems to be rather good.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

This statement is pure fiction or fantasy, you decide. You have ZERO idea whether they would accept or deny it.

I can make an informed reason why they would deny it if they did. And, it's likely the reason would be because the fluid was changed at a non-authorized BMW service facility and not because the fluid was changed. This would likely apply to almost any other type of service you might do on the vehcile.

It's well known that in order to avoid this potential problem you have an authorized BMW service facility perform all service while the vehicle is under warranty. As I said already: This is not unique to changing the transmisison fluid. As a matter of fact it has little to do with changing the fluid (other than that was the work performed).

And frankly THAT'S MY POINT. We are not talking about a $50 part here that they will waive the cost of without blinking an eye. We're talking in the neighborhood of a $6100 + tax transmission. So why take the risk?

You don't. If you want the transmission fluid flushed while it's under warranty then take it to an authorized BMW service facility.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I can see the arguments on both sides, but at the end of the day I think I'll go with Mike Miller's advice, simply because I've got a lot of faith in his experience and expertise:

"The short answer for the modern BMWs with “lifetime fill” ATF: Change it and the filter at least every 60,000 miles using ONLY the factory BMW proprietary ATF."

He might be wrong, but from what I can see his track record on other topics seems to be rather good.

Do you realize his advice came back in 2002?

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by X5 Meister

Also do the math:
Filter $55
Gasket $32
Plug + washer $5
Fluid 9.5 quarts @ $170 / gallon ==> need 3 gallons = $510
Oil transfer pump $20

Conservative total w/5% tax = $653.00

This is also why some choose to not to have two or three changes by 100,000. You would be looking at about $1,300 to $1,950 for two or three changes and you still have the possibility of a trans failure. Might as well put that $2,000 in the bank and roll the dice.

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by JCL

New questions for Sunny:

I wondered idly how many posts had been made in this thread, so I looked up your posting history. Practically all posts are on this topic, but you did post that you had a valve body failure in your 2000 X5. Sorry to hear, it sounds like it was expensive, and it was out of warranty. Valve bodies don't typically fail in normal use, unless they get clogged. So here are the questions:

Had you or your mechanic changed your transmission fluid at any time prior to that transmission valve body failure?

If so, do you think the fluid change could have contributed to that early failure? If not, do you think that changing the transmission fluid would have extended the life of the valve body?

Just wondering.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

Do you realize his advice came back in 2002?

I sent him an e-mail in December asking for his maintenance recommendation document and that is in the document he sent me. Since he is quite emphatic that he does not want his maintenance document posted on the internet as he does not want any out-of-date copies floating around, I assume what he sent me in December is still an active recommendation of his... at least as of December, 2009.

P.S. I just checked the document he sent me, from which I took that quote. It has a "revised" date of July 2009.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

I can make an informed reason why they would deny it if they did. And, it's likely the reason would be because the fluid was changed at a non-authorized BMW service facility and not because the fluid was changed.

Since you are the US, why wouldn't you just use the provisions of the Magnusson Moss warranty act that restrict tie-ins during the warranty period? BMW can't require that the required service be done at their dealer, just that it be done.

It isn't about where it is done, it is the fact that it is done.

[FSETH]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I can see the arguments on both sides, but at the end of the day I think I'll go with Mike Miller's advice, simply because I've got a lot of faith in his experience and expertise:

"The short answer for the modern BMWs with “lifetime fill” ATF: Change it and the filter at least every 60,000 miles using ONLY the factory BMW proprietary ATF."

He might be wrong, but from what I can see his track record on other topics seems to be rather good.

I mean come on...head technical editor of the BMWCCA. Enough said.

Oh, and just so everyone knows, one of the other reasons Mike doesn't want people posting his schedule online is because it is because it constantly evolves and changes with the times. The copy on the link may have been dated, however, the newest copy (as of a few weeks ago) basically says the same thing.

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by JCL

New questions for Sunny:

I wondered idly how many posts had been made in this thread, so I looked up your posting history. Practically all posts are on this topic, but you did post that you had a valve body failure in your 2000 X5. Sorry to hear, it sounds like it was expensive, and it was out of warranty. Valve bodies don't typically fail in normal use, unless they get clogged. So here are the questions:

Had you or your mechanic changed your transmission fluid at any time prior to that transmission valve body failure?

If so, do you think the fluid change could have contributed to that early failure? If not, do you think that changing the transmission fluid would have extended the life of the valve body?

Just wondering.

Oh what the hell:

• Had you or your mechanic changed your transmission fluid at any time prior to that transmission valve body failure? No.

The vehicle had approximately 85K on it. To my knowledge the fluid had never been changed (though I bought it with 80K on it). My mechanics cost on the part from BMW was $1,800. My mechanic ordered it directly from ZF (we have a local distributor here in Denver) at a cost of $550. He passed that cost along to me with no mark up. After the work was completed the problem was fixed.

My mechanic knows his stuff and goes out of his way to treat his customers fairly. This is one example.

Edit:

• If not, do you think that changing the transmission fluid would have extended the life of the valve body? There is the possibility. And since you said "Valve bodies don't typically fail in normal use, unless they get clogged." It seems reasonable to conclude you would agree with me.