Do you ever just want to be rid of your X5?

[romeokc10]

Originally Posted by c4racer

Anyway - BMW's are not like Acuras. The payoff for a much nicer vehicle with superior driving dynamics is a bit more upkeep. Volvos seem to be hit and miss with reliability.

Hmmmm.....okay, so enlighten us as to how a BMW is a much nicer and superior dynamic vehicle than a Lexus, Acura, or Infiniti. Your logic is totally flawed, even if they are "superior" as you stated, that doesn't mean it should be a pain in the ass to maintain and pain in the ass on your wallet. It's a BMW truck for crying out loud, a family hauler, it shouldn't be fragile, now if we were talking about a Ferrari or a Lamborghini I would agree with you.

[AZX54.4]

Originally Posted by romeokc10

Hmmmm.....okay, so enlighten us as to how a BMW is a much nicer and superior dynamic vehicle than a Lexus, Acura, or Infiniti. Your logic is totally flawed, even if they are "superior" as you stated, that doesn't mean it should be a pain in the ass to maintain and pain in the ass on your wallet. It's a BMW truck for crying out loud, a family hauler, it shouldn't be fragile, now if we were talking about a Ferrari or a Lamborghini I would agree with you.

He is probably saying that nothing else handles or drives like a BMW. Which is a statement that I would agree with.

[minghi]

Originally Posted by AZX54.4

He is probably saying that nothing else handles or drives like a BMW. Which is a statement that I would agree with.

[romeokc10]

Originally Posted by AZX54.4

He is probably saying that nothing else handles or drives like a BMW. Which is a statement that I would agree with.

I'm sure that's what he meant also, but again that doesn't justify the problems people seem have with these vehicles. I used to work at a BMW dealership in the late 90's and it was mind boggling some of the defects owners were reporting to us. I'm sure most people are like me, when you think of BMW or M/B the first thing that comes to mind is reliability.

[StanF18]

Originally Posted by romeokc10

I'm sure that's what he meant also, but again that doesn't justify the problems people seem have with these vehicles. I used to work at a BMW dealership in the late 90's and it was mind boggling some of the defects owners were reporting to us. I'm sure most people are like me, when you think of BMW or M/B the first thing that comes to mind is reliability.

It's not a question of "justified" or not. It's whatever the market will bear. It's all about economic equilibrium, my friend. As long as folks like us are willing to go out and purchase a BMW (which I am STILL willing to do ), we accept a certain "hit" on the reliability and durability in exchange for superior driving dynamics and sporty feel. As long as supply meets demand at a price point that is acceptable to both BMW and their consumers.....well, there you have it.
I'm not saying BMW should not improve their quality control or durability testing, but nothing is free, my friend. It may come down to a "diminishing returns" scenario for both buyer and seller, where the marginal increase in reliability comes with an unacceptable price tag.

In any event it's all relative. Yes, our X5s are nowhere near Honda or Toyota, but take a look at Range Rovers and some Mercedes models, and you will suddenly feel like BMW has STELLAR reliability.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by romeokc10

I'm sure most people are like me, when you think of BMW or M/B the first thing that comes to mind is reliability.

That would be an error. BMW does not spend as much of their limited development money on reliability issues as they could, they spend it on technology and performance. They fine tune the driving experience (handling, acceleration, braking, vehicle dynamics) but that means that something has to give, and what seems to me to suffer most is the integration of third party supplier components such as the audio system, nav system, window regulators, transmissions, etc.

I have many friends who, knowing of my long string of BMW vehicles, ask me if they should buy one. Many have the same assumption you have, that price correlates to reliability. I always correct them on that, and suggest they drive the vehicle first. If they rave about the driving experience, then they are a candidate to buy one, knowing full well that they are trading off reliability, etc. If they don't rave about the driving experience, I suggest that they would be better off in a Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Ford, etc. All of those will be more reliable.

I love my BMWs, but I buy them new, and sell them when the warranty is up. Works for me. May not work for everyone. Anyone buying a used BMW should know what they are getting into before they do it. It can work out very well, but eyes wide open works better than unrealistic expectations IMO.

[AZX54.4]

Originally Posted by romeokc10

I'm sure that's what he meant also, but again that doesn't justify the problems people seem have with these vehicles. I used to work at a BMW dealership in the late 90's and it was mind boggling some of the defects owners were reporting to us. I'm sure most people are like me, when you think of BMW or M/B the first thing that comes to mind is reliability.

I definitely agree with that statement as well. I am left perplexed at some of the things that have failed on my X5 at such low milage. It makes no sense to me and does at times make me reconsider and look for a new car. All I can really do is think as positive as possible and hope for the best that that I have fixed everything on my car. Haha.

[AZX54.4]

Originally Posted by JCL

That would be an error. BMW does not spend as much of their limited development money on reliability issues as they could, they spend it on technology and performance. They fine tune the driving experience (handling, acceleration, braking, vehicle dynamics) but that means that something has to give, and what seems to me to suffer most is the integration of third party supplier components such as the audio system, nav system, window regulators, transmissions, etc.

I have many friends who, knowing of my long string of BMW vehicles, ask me if they should buy one. Many have the same assumption you have, that price correlates to reliability. I always correct them on that, and suggest they drive the vehicle first. If they rave about the driving experience, then they are a candidate to buy one, knowing full well that they are trading off reliability, etc. If they don't rave about the driving experience, I suggest that they would be better off in a Toyota, Lexus, Honda, Ford, etc. All of those will be more reliable.

I love my BMWs, but I buy them new, and sell them when the warranty is up. Works for me. May not work for everyone. Anyone buying a used BMW should know what they are getting into before they do it. It can work out very well, but eyes wide open works better than unrealistic expectations IMO.

Well put JCL. This is exactly true, what you are saying about where BMW puts the bulk of the money. The driving experience. I tell people who are asking me if they should buy a BMW basically the same thing you said. They are not maintenance free. However, they drive like nothing else. Be prepared if you buy one to spend a couple thousand on it if it is out of warranty.

At the end of the day, we buy BMW's because most of us are car/driving enthusiasts. We like to feel the road, the suspension etc... And BMW provides this experience.

[X5Flyboy]

Yes, but is it about getting rid of the car..., or not having to deal with the dealers???

[neockder]

Thank you! Now I don't have to say it..

Originally Posted by c4racer

OK - brakes, batteries, drivebelts are all maint items that ALL cars need.

Leaking valvecover is a PITA, but that can also happen with any vehicle - tho for some reason the gaskets used on these german engines don't make it much past 80K miles - and that goes for all 3 major german automakers btw. Front axles I assume is due to split CV boots - also a common failure on many 4WD vehicles although again seems the Germans don't use the best rubber there either.

Anyway - BMW's are not like Acuras. The payoff for a much nicer vehicle with superior driving dynamics is a bit more upkeep. Volvos seem to be hit and miss with reliability.

If you want Honda / Acura / Lexus level of reliability and trouble free driving - you just are not going to be happy with a BMW. But there is a big difference in driving dynamics and overall quality between BMW and the Japanese luxury brands. So you need to decide for yourself if the hassle and additional expense of a BMW is worth it to you. For me it is, but then again the expense isn't that great since I do nearly all the work on them myself.