My First BMW 2002 X5 4.4!!! Got Screwed!!!

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by CT_X5_Joe

Correct! Most dealer will "goodwill" work regardless if it was sold as is. This is especially true for local dealers.

For anyone who has worked in the auto industry (guessing most on here have not) you understand that your main selling advantage, and really the only way to over come a price sensitive shopper, is to sell the value add of buying from a local dealer.

I'm not saying the dealer will fix the problem or even saying they are morally obligated too, I am simp lying saying it's worth a shot as the buyer bought local and not the lowest priced online.

Do we know this? Just because they're local doesn't mean they didn't discount it given the age, condition, and the fact the SEL light was illuminated. It's entirely possible they sold it for a discount knowing it was going to need some kind of work.

[CT_X5_Joe]

Valid point. The dealer may have said it's a trade, we don't know anything, we have priced it to move, take it or leave it.

Sunny, what would you do if this was you?

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by CT_X5_Joe

Where did anyone fault the dealer or use the word unethical?

All I'm trying to do is help the guy out. As someone who spent 10 years in the auto/boating industry I saw more than enough work get done for little to nothing out of pocket to the owner. 99% of the time the work performed was done by the dealer to raise a bad CSI score or to aid a local customer.

Right here:

"...from an ethical standpoint what happened to the OP sucks and a stand up dealer would make it right..."

While I understand what you're saying about goodwill it's entirely possible the dealer discounted this vehicle because of its condition.

If you had sold this vehicle expressly "as is" would you cover the repair? Even partially?

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by CT_X5_Joe

Valid point. The dealer may have said it's a trade, we don't know anything, we have priced it to move, take it or leave it.

Sunny, what would you do if this was you?

As the buyer or seller?

[CT_X5_Joe]

Depends. As a private seller? No. I would say "as-is, where is, no warranty expressed or implied". I would also add to my bill of sale "by signing below the buyer agrees that any all inspections have been performed and the results are satisfactory" and I would even add for good measure " the listing condition is the opinion of the seller and in no way represents or adheres to any standards used within the auto industry".

Now. As a dealer, if I owed a shop that was financially capable of providing free work for a local customer, I would. As a former salesman, I would work on the behalf of the customer to have something covered. If I was the dealerships GM I would ask my team the following 1. What's wrong/broken. 2. Whats the cost of repair? Retail and true cost? 3. How upset is the customer.

Depending on the answers to the above three questions I would consider doing the work/reducing the cost.

NOW, if the customer doesn't ask for anything (as part of above question #3) I wouldnt do anything. If the customer was following up daily by phone/email and maybe paying a visit to the store I would consider doing work/assisting the customer. Again, this depends on the total cost of the nessisary work.

[dragoncoach]

Originally Posted by sunny5280

Right here:

"...from an ethical standpoint what happened to the OP sucks and a stand up dealer would make it right..."

While I understand what you're saying about goodwill it's entirely possible the dealer discounted this vehicle because of its condition.

If you had sold this vehicle expressly "as is" would you cover the repair? Even partially?

A lot depends on how much the dealer made. As we all know, no dealer loses money on a car. However, all disclosures were made regarding no inspections and an AS IS document was signed. Ethics come into play but it goes both ways. Someone who gets a great deal, and knows it, often times keeps coming back and demanding more. If the dealer helps the OP out great, but don't expect it. Either case, one needs to fix it and move on.

Where is the OP anyway? What happened to his X and his problem and the selling dealer?

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by CT_X5_Joe

Depends. As a private seller? No. I would say "as-is, where is, no warranty expressed or implied". I would also add to my bill of sale "by signing below the buyer agrees that any all inspections have been performed and the results are satisfactory" and I would even add for good measure " the listing condition is the opinion of the seller and in no way represents or adheres to any standards used within the auto industry".

I suspect the OP signed a document stating at least the first condition you listed. With that said why, as a private seller, do you not feel obligated to perform a repair?

Originally Posted by CT_X5_Joe

Now. As a dealer, if I owed a shop that was financially capable of providing free work for a local customer, I would. As a former salesman, I would work on the behalf of the customer to have something covered. If I was the dealerships GM I would ask my team the following 1. What's wrong/broken. 2. Whats the cost of repair? Retail and true cost? 3. How upset is the customer.

I'm looking at the documentation for the 2001 X5 I purchased. In that pile of paperwork is a piece of paper specifically addressing whether the vehicle is or is not covered under warranty. It has large (18-20 point type?) text that makes it very easy to determine whether the vehicle does or does not have a warranty (because there is a big checkbox right next to "AS IS-NO WARRANTY" (exact wording and case) and "WARRANTY" (exact wording and case). Below the "AS IS-NO WARRANTY" is some smaller, yet still very large (12-14 point type?) that says "YOU WILL PAY ALL COST FOR ANY REPAIRS. The dealer assumes no responsibility for any repairs regardless of any oral statements about this vehicle." (again, exact text and case). This is a standard form that appears to be used by dealers here in Colorado. While I can't say if the OP signed this particular form I suspect he signed something which basically says the same thing. Given this should I expect the dealer to have paid for any repairs immediately after I drove it off the lot?

Edit: Here's a link to the form:

ASIS Buyers Guide with Tape

[sunny5280]

Originally Posted by dragoncoach

A lot depends on how much the dealer made. As we all know, no dealer loses money on a car. However, all disclosures were made regarding no inspections and an AS IS document was signed. Ethics come into play but it goes both ways. Someone who gets a great deal, and knows it, often times keeps coming back and demanding more. If the dealer helps the OP out great, but don't expect it. Either case, one needs to fix it and move on.

How much they made is irrelevant. If you buy something "as is" then you assume all responsibility.

[tkasser]

Originally Posted by dragoncoach

As we all know, no dealer loses money on a car.

This is far from true. It happens all the time that a dealer will lose money on a car. They try not to lose money, just like every other business. Dealers aren't there for charity. They are there to make money, and there is nothing wrong with that.

[CT_X5_Joe]

As a private seller of a vehicle I would in no way be able to repair the said problem, and as a result not expected to pay for it. This is of course assuming I never offered any warranty when selling the vehicle.

A dealer has the ability to repair vehicles at a substantially lower rate than the posted retail repair cost. As a result dealers use this as a bargaining item to appease the customer when they return looking for free repairs. The dealer may, for example, offer a 20% discount, or perhaps cover the labor and ask the customer to pay for the part. The logic behind this is the upset customer is made happy (somewhat happy, not truly happy) and the dealer usually offsets the cost of the free labor with the markup on the nessisary parts.

Where did you buy your car Sunny? Local dealer? When did you buy it? How much did you negotiate? (based on your responses above you strike me as a self titled all-star negotiator) What is the nature of the nessisary repair? How long have you done business with this dealer? What CSI score (if any) did you give?

No two cases are the same, and the above questions are the type of information a dealer will need to consider before offering a reduced repair cost.

Let's get back to our forum friend jhigbee's original post. He asked for any help. Assuming his state doesn't have a lemon law, and assuming his bill of sale reads as yours does, with the large, 18-20 point type, boc check off reading AS IS-NO WARANTY, what would you offer him as advice??