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  #61  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:05 PM
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I don't recall the following being challenged: https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...s-summary.html. Phil is our resident expert on transmissions, might want to PM him for input.

Transmissions and engines are designed to run most efficiently at a specific operating temperature. The same is true of the life of components.

Lots of my laymen solutions sounded very logical but I have learned over many decades to find verification from the MFG or aftermarket performance suppliers. When there is a design weakness or flaw there are often MFG revision part numbers. When there is a chronic weakness that the MFG has not addressed there are often aftermarket solutions well recognized as a design improvements.

It's true that engine temperature is specified to help meet emission standards. That doesn't mean it shortens the lifecycles of components or that by reducing the temp the life can be extended beyond the design specs.

I'm not saying either of you are wrong, or trying to change your mind. I can see you are convinced you are right. I am saying you have no expert verification for what you are doing. You don't know you are right.

I been where you are many many times over the years especially early on. Usually I was doing what seemed to be logical to save money, in denial. My advice is to close that gap between what you think you know and what you don't know as part of your decision. For what it's worth I've learned it is far better to do the right thing the first time. Lots less pain, suffering and cost over the long run. Good luck
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  #62  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
I don't recall the following being challenged: https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...s-summary.html.
Which part are we looking at not being challenged - there's 19 pages?

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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Transmissions and engines are designed to run most efficiently at a specific operating temperature. The same is true of the life of components.
I'll rephrase that for you..."Transmissions and engines are designed to run most efficiently at a specific operating temperature RANGE"

More specifically it's the lubricants that are designed to run at a specific temperature range which then dictate the temperature of the components. Take engine oil for example. It has a very wide operating range however it's always going to work better and last longer at say 85 degrees C than it is at at 130 degrees C - even though 130 degrees is still within 'spec' for alot of modern oils.

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That doesn't mean it shortens the lifecycles of components or that by reducing the temp the life can be extended beyond the design specs.
Agreed it doesn't mean it does....but there's every chance that it will.

I have owned lots of BMWs over the years and I have to say out of all of them the X5 has been the worst by far for parts perishing particularly coolant pipes and of course the dreaded chain guides. It's currently done 125k which in the grand scheme of things isn't all that high for a modern engine, however whilst my girlfriends E46 330cd of the same era (about 8 months newer) has done over 190k I haven't had to replace a single coolant pipe through perishing. The engine coolant runs in the low 90s as opposed to the 108degrees the X5 usually runs. Is this a contributing factor - hard to say for sure but it would certainly make sense.

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I am saying you have no expert verification for what you are doing. You don't know you are right.
Similarly you have no expert verification either to be able to say that we are wrong. However I do have proof that nearly 30k miles ago I had transmission issues - harsh 2-1 downshifts and changing up into 3rd when towing. I fitted a transmission cooler and now I don't have any issues (touch wood).

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My advice is to close that gap between what you think you know and what you don't know as part of your decision.
This is exactly what I did, I went out and researched the optimum operating temperature range for our transmissions and found that I was at times well outside of this. I also found whilst researching that I wasn't alone in my situation and that lots of other people had found the same and had done similar and had good results. Even the later transmissions found in the 4.8is run cooler than ours do (by around 10-20degrees) and also appear to last longer, I haven't influenced this - however BMW most certainly have - perhaps they realised they made a mistake?
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  #63  
Old 08-01-2018, 05:56 AM
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BMW will let this transmission run close to 200F and keep going.
I don't know what temp it throws the overheat warning at, but I think it's allowed operating range is too high.





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  #64  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:31 PM
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When you post something here expect there will be input or challenge. I am not challenging you. I am trying to provide input that might help. I have acknowledged I am not an expert, few here are. When one uses words like chance or perhaps it means their position is based on what seems logical to them. That's when we are most dangerous if that includes not considering any input that does not endorse what we think is logical. I am not saying you are wrong. My input is to have the trans diagnosed before speeding $$ doing what seems logical. Minimize your risk of having to spend more $$ later. You made a post that is my input.

Here is a short thread involving RRphil. As I mentioned RRphil is our resident expert on transmissions. That's my opinion but he actually repairs transmissions and has provided excellent input over the years. https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...houghts-2.html. Might want to PM him and get his input.

JCL is also a long time member with great input. It is hard to be here on a regular basis for many years and not become educated about how to troubleshoot and come to the root cause of a problem. I give significant weight to posts from members that have been here a long time and have many thousands of posts.

Suggested response to this post---thanks for the input.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 08-01-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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  #65  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
When you post something here expect there will be input or challenge. I am not challenging you. I am trying to provide input that might help. I have acknowledged I am not an expert, few here are. When one uses words like chance or perhaps it means their position is based on what seems logical to them. That's when we are most dangerous if that includes not considering any input that does not endorse what we think is logical. I am not saying you are wrong. My input is to have the trans diagnosed before speeding $$ doing what seems logical. Minimize your risk of having to spend more $$ later. You made a post that is my input.

Here is a short thread involving RRphil. As I mentioned RRphil is our resident expert on transmissions. That's my opinion but he actually repairs transmissions and has provided excellent input over the years. https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...houghts-2.html. Might want to PM him and get his input.

Suggested response to this post---thanks for the input.


Who is that directed at?


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  #66  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:04 PM
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Primarily intended to be beneficial to V8OOUSH. My input to your post of trans temps diagram is that it seems to be a generalization that never is good idea to use as verification of a specific transmission that may not have been included or is entirely different design than the others. A good idea is to provide a link to the information so readers can find out things such as what year the info was prepared, does the originator have any credibility, how they know verified the info etc.

Also, you posted that you haven't read this thread from the beginning. Some threads are very long and some are revived but generally it is never a good idea to post if you haven't read the entire thread. In this particular case JCL addressed coolers early which was very important to have read.

Suggested response---so noted.
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  #67  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:04 PM
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When you post something here expect there will be input or challenge. I am not challenging you.
I have absolutely no issue with people challenging me or providing input. That, at the end of the day is what a forum is there for.

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My input is to have the trans diagnosed before speeding $$ doing what seems logical. Minimize your risk of having to spend more $$ later. You made a post that is my input.
If you had kept up with all my posts regarding transmission temperatures in this very thread you would have noted that I had previously pulled the transmission error codes in an effort to diagnose the issue I was experiencing. I went away and did my research and came back with a solution. Short of pulling the trans and handing it over to someone like RRphil which would have no doubt cost a small fortune even to just strip it down. I instead went with my gut instinct, spent around £150 on parts and just under 30k miles later I'm very happy I did. I have no doubt that at some point in the future I will have to drop the transmission as I'm fully expecting to have issues at some point due to the 5HP24s many and varied high mileage faults that people report. To be honest as that point I'd be more inclined to convert it to manual & possibly even RWD to remove the possibility of further issues in the future rather than fork out £2k+ for a reconditioned auto box.

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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Here is a short thread involving RRphil. As I mentioned RRphil is our resident expert on transmissions. That's my opinion but he actually repairs transmissions and has provided excellent input over the years. https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/...houghts-2.html.
Yes, I've already seen that thread and read its contents several times. What's interesting to note is that RRPhil actually states in one of this posts 'Clearly the fact that the electric thermostat on the engine operates the engine cooling system at such high temperatures in an attempt to eke out the last bit of fuel economy at part load doesn’t exactly help with the transmission fluid ‘cooling’ (or is that heating?)". Doesn't that suggest that even he doesn't particular agree with BMWs transmission cooling strategy?

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I give significant weight to posts from members that have been here a long time and have many thousands of posts.
Quite clearly you do, and what is also quite clear is your poor attitude and lack of respect towards members who may not have thousands of posts on this forum and yet have gained substantial knowledge through the experience of working with cars in general over many many years. As I said earlier I have no issue with people giving input or indeed challenging me. However I do take issue with those users who have obviously been on this board a while and think it's perfectly acceptable to make what they believe is smart and what in actual fact are patronising remarks such as 'suggested response'.
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  #68  
Old 08-01-2018, 08:47 PM
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Hahha. So the guru also thinks the engine and transmission run too hot.
Funny how that works. Lol.


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  #69  
Old 08-02-2018, 03:50 PM
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Hahha. So the guru also thinks the engine and transmission run too hot.
Funny how that works. Lol.


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You are taking that post out of context. I've acknowledged that engine temp. is set to contribute to emission requirements. That is a separate discussion. The trans temp is not controlled by engine temp and if you read the entire on you will see that he states the trans cooling system is more than adequate.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 08-02-2018 at 03:56 PM.
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  #70  
Old 08-02-2018, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
You are taking that post out of context. I've acknowledged that engine temp. is set to contribute to emission requirements. That is a separate discussion. The trans temp is not controlled by engine temp and if you read the entire on you will see that he states the trans cooling system is more than adequate.


Ahhh. So the transmission cooler is cooled by coolant from the radiator. A radiator that works off a 110c thermostat.
So hot ass coolant is "cooling" hot ass atf.
So at best condition in hot climate & load conditions. The coolant is maybe being cooled to just below 110c.
You do realize that's over 200F. That's NOT a good temperature for a transmission.
You don't need to be a transmission expert to realize that.


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