THE X5 to have...

[Bayerische E53]

Originally Posted by dinan e39

If cars these days are so heavy, why do you not want the most power available in the model offered? With the X5, the mileage is essentially the same from the 3.0 to the 4.8. To argue otherwise is silly. When you say a proper transmission, what exactly do you mean? If a manual is so perfect, why are all manufacturers going away from a manual? It's all about preference for the individual. There's no such thing as "proper" or perfect.

As I said, I don't care too much about power. Unless you're going off-road (whether in the woods or racing), it is my opinion that big power is really unnecessary. Look at the big AMG MLs and the X5/6 M/// - who needs that kind of power to cart the kids/wife/groceries around? Plus, you need special equipment and a degree in nuclear engineering to do anything more complex than a god damned oil change. It's not my thing. As I said before, TO ME, simplicity is more important than power. Not hating on anyone with the "big" cars (except the people who buy them for the simple fact of saying "look how much power I have." Lame and unimpressive.) ... it's just not my cup of tea.

Originally Posted by Skyline

For one thing, automatics are getting better and better. Aside from the computer controlled clutchless manuals, (DSG, SMG or whatever; these shift faster than humanly possible), regular auto boxes are getting SO much better. More gears for better gas mileage, and they are much better at putting themselves in the right gear and anticipating your needs. Many conventional automatics now rev-match on downshifts, a big pet peeve I used to have. I drove a Carrera S a few years back with Tiptronic, (lacking this rev matching). I downshifted just before the apex of a corner, and the rear wheels locked up for a moment. I got quite sideways. No thanks. Today's Tiptronic would rev-match perfectly. From a performance and control standpoint, the advantages of a manual are shrinking, maybe already gone in many cars. All that's left is the extra hassle.

I wonder if so many V8 X5 owners would still be longing for a manual if the automatic were up to the best of today.... AND reliable.

Very good post. This is all true.

Originally Posted by epdarks

It seems that manufacturers are going away from manual transmissions due to consumer demand, not because the mfg's are pushing autos over manuals. As the autos and sequential manual boxes get better, as Skyline said, more people want them.

Now, in my humble opinion, the underlying force behind this demand is that people like "new tech", the latest and greatest, they are buying these new autos not only for the function but to be ahead of the technology curve.

As tech gets better and better we will reach a point of diminishing returns. In the example of SMG/DCT transmissions... they will hit a peak balancing fast gear shifts with the ultimate usability day to day.

As all consumer choices come in cycles, the "fad" of the high-tech SMG gearbox will blow over. What happened to just having fun behind the wheel, regardless if you are .1 seconds slower to 60 MPH?

IMO, manual transmissions will see a resurgence in the near future. With that, rare manual transmission vehicles will become more desirable in a sea of automatics.

Just a theory in my head, take it with a grain of salt, but I believe there will always be a core group of people seeking to purchase the good old fashioned 3 pedal manual transmission.

I agree with everything you just posted. It's the consumer rather than the car companies that is sending traditional things to the way side. I mean, let's get real here - the new BMWs have the ability to "tweet" from the iDrive. Get fuckin' real, will ya? Look at BMW's current customer-base majority - it's comprised mainly of the new generation of kids and soccer moms with nothing to do but gossip on facebook and twitter. What do you think BMW is going to do? They gotta out-sell Audi!

Seriously, I'm still trying to find the importance and need of a 500hp, 5,000lbs luxury SUV. Even more difficult to find is the importance of a transmission that allows that very SUV to shift in 150 miliseconds. The consumer loves saying "I laugh at your car...my SUV does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds - with a standard manual it would only do it in 4.5 seconds!" Again, I respectfully state the following rhetorical statement/question: "Get fuckin' real, will ya?"

People love showing off how tech-savvy they are, how cutting-edge they are, how cool their "stuff" is, how powerful their engines are, and how fast their transmissions are. In my opinion, these types of people are on the cutting-edge of showing off and fucking about ... that's all.

Yeah, I'm an old fart - so?

Again, not hating on the "big" cars. The X5M, for instance, is a stellar truck. It's just too much bling-bling and complexity for me.

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

BMW info states the E53 3.0L MT trailer limit is 5000lbs, only the V8s are rated for 6000lbs. I guess you're making that face after SlickGT1 post? It's no suprise there are MT V8 X5s out there, these same engines were mated to MTs when installed in 5 series vehicles.

Depends. Manual 3.0s were rated at 6,000lbs. I also believe that the Facelift autos got bumped up to 6,000lbs as well. You are correct, however, that the pre-facelift 3.0s were rated at 5,000lbs. Never the less, I towed my 5,000+lbs trailer with my pre-facelift 3.0 without incident over the course of 15,000 miles or so. The weight limitation on these cars is underrated.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by Bayerische E53

Depends. Manual 3.0s were rated at 6,000lbs. I also believe that the Facelift autos got bumped up to 6,000lbs as well. You are correct, however, that the pre-facelift 3.0s were rated at 5,000lbs. Never the less, I towed my 5,000+lbs trailer with my pre-facelift 3.0 without incident over the course of 15,000 miles or so. The weight limitation on these cars is underrated.

BMW & Edmunds.com both show a 5000 lb tow limit on pre-facelift E53s with the manual trans. I am well aware of the underrating, I've towed a few boat/trailer combos over 7500 lbs, in the mountains no less.

[Bayerische E53]

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

BMW & Edmunds.com both show a 5000 lb tow limit on pre-facelift E53s with the manual trans. I am well aware of the underrating, I've towed a few boat/trailer combos over 7500 lbs, in the mountains no less.

That's interesting. I was under the impression that the manuals were always rated at 6,000lbs. Hrm. Oh well, guess I was wrong as to that point.

You've towed some pretty impressive lash-ups with your truck on equally impressive terrain. I've towed my 5,000lbs+ rig through the Poconos (PA and NY) and the mountains in Tennessee without issue. I thought I was pretty cool, but towing 7,500lbs over the same terrain really says somethin'. I know that Whithidl yanks along his 8,300lbs+ Airstream but that's a bit more than I'd dare. Regardless, pretty interesting no less.

Nice to know you've got experience towing with the X. It really is a capable little truck.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

BMW & Edmunds.com both show a 5000 lb tow limit on pre-facelift E53s with the manual trans.

I believe the 6000 lb figure for all manual transmission E53s. My reference is the BMW service instruction that was packaged with my E53 hitch in 2003. Document label is 01 29 0 009 710, if it matters. Still have it.

Towing capacities are specifically listed for V8 models (6000), 3.0 Steptronic models (5000), and 3.0 manual transmission models (6000). Those are all with trailer brakes.

Without trailer brakes, on and off road, 1650 lbs, all models.

With trailer brakes, offroad (considering jounce), 3300 lbs, all models

With the 2004 facelift, all models went to 6000 lbs with trailer brakes.

I suspect that the BMW and Edmunds figures are sourced from sales documents, not technical documents.

[Roadkill]

Originally Posted by Bayerische E53

As I said, I don't care too much about power. Unless you're going off-road (whether in the woods or racing), it is my opinion that big power is really unnecessary. Look at the big AMG MLs and the X5/6 M/// - who needs that kind of power to cart the kids/wife/groceries around? Plus, you need special equipment and a degree in nuclear engineering to do anything more complex than a god damned oil change. It's not my thing. As I said before, TO ME, simplicity is more important than power. Not hating on anyone with the "big" cars (except the people who buy them for the simple fact of saying "look how much power I have." Lame and unimpressive.) ... it's just not my cup of tea.



Very good post. This is all true.




I agree with everything you just posted. It's the consumer rather than the car companies that is sending traditional things to the way side. I mean, let's get real here - the new BMWs have the ability to "tweet" from the iDrive. Get fuckin' real, will ya? Look at BMW's current customer-base majority - it's comprised mainly of the new generation of kids and soccer moms with nothing to do but gossip on facebook and twitter. What do you think BMW is going to do? They gotta out-sell Audi!

Seriously, I'm still trying to find the importance and need of a 500hp, 5,000lbs luxury SUV. Even more difficult to find is the importance of a transmission that allows that very SUV to shift in 150 miliseconds. The consumer loves saying "I laugh at your car...my SUV does 0-60 in 4.2 seconds - with a standard manual it would only do it in 4.5 seconds!" Again, I respectfully state the following rhetorical statement/question: "Get fuckin' real, will ya?"

People love showing off how tech-savvy they are, how cutting-edge they are, how cool their "stuff" is, how powerful their engines are, and how fast their transmissions are. In my opinion, these types of people are on the cutting-edge of showing off and fucking about ... that's all.

Yeah, I'm an old fart - so?

Again, not hating on the "big" cars. The X5M, for instance, is a stellar truck. It's just too much bling-bling and complexity for me.



Depends. Manual 3.0s were rated at 6,000lbs. I also believe that the Facelift autos got bumped up to 6,000lbs as well. You are correct, however, that the pre-facelift 3.0s were rated at 5,000lbs. Never the less, I towed my 5,000+lbs trailer with my pre-facelift 3.0 without incident over the course of 15,000 miles or so. The weight limitation on these cars is underrated.

It appears that BMW is not the car for you anymore. I am the individual that enjoys a lot of power and is not interested in fuel economy. I know that a 5000lbs SUV isn't going to handle like an M3. I've got 2 kids and don't feel the need to try and race the STI crowd. You need to tone down your language in your posts and realize that we all have opinions about what these cars are about. We're all different and that's what I like about this site. It's cool if you think your 3 liter 6 MT is the best out there, I respectfully disagree.

[Bayerische E53]

Originally Posted by dinan e39

It appears that BMW is not the car for you anymore. I am the individual that enjoys a lot of power and is not interested in fuel economy. I know that a 5000lbs SUV isn't going to handle like an M3. I've got 2 kids and don't feel the need to try and race the STI crowd. You need to tone down your language in your posts and realize that we all have opinions about what these cars are about. We're all different and that's what I like about this site. It's cool if you think your 3 liter 6 MT is the best out there, I respectfully disagree.

I never once insulted the whole group of V8 owners or even stereotyped the whole group V8 owners. I specifically picked on a certain minority - a minority that I never insinuated you or any other member on this forum was part of. Indeed, I did agree that the big stuff is cool. I also never said I thought my 3 liter was the best out there. I just said I prefer it over the V8 cars for very specific reasons. I do realize we all have different opinions. If you go back and read my posts you'll see that I use qualifiers like "personally..." and "to me..." and "in my opinion..."

I apologize if some of the dark satire in my above posts was not sufficiently explicit. I personally thought it evident that most of the content in my posts was not to be taken in a completely literal sense due to the satire and sarcasm. I also thought it evident that those posts were not supposed to be taken as a direct insult to the non-3.0i owners on this forum. If that wasn't as clear as I thought, I apologize. I was not trying to insult anyone.

For what it's worth, one of the things I too like about this site is that we all have different tastes. It makes for a variety of looks, DIY techniques, etc. which are great for ideas and for aiding in the decision-making process. And, let's face it, this place is also great for a little friendly back-and-forth banter, which is what I hope this exchange of posts turns out to be. The last thing I want is to make someone feel like I've deliberately picked them out and insulted them. I've never done that on this forum and I do not intend to start here.