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  #1  
Old 12-04-2012, 06:39 PM
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VALLEY PAN LEAK OR...?????

First of all, a million thanks to whoever wrote this DIY procedure:

http://www.xoutpost.com/article/BMW%...n%20Gasket.pdf

Without it, I would not have been able to this job myself. There are invaluable tips that get you through some very challenging spots. I might add to it, if anyone is about to do the job and wants to reach out to me.

HOWEVER...much to my horror, my X5 (2003 4.6is) is still leaking coolant. I used Permatex ultra black gasket maker and was very careful when making the gasket for the valley pan cover, and replaced my water manifold gaskets. I can't imagine its coming from either of those spots...or could it? How easy is it to screw that up?

Does anyone have a clue as to where else the coolant could be leaking from? God forbid I didn't get something back on correctly. Doing the job again is unthinkable.

I'm finding about a half cup of coolant (or less) on my garage floor. Its definitely coming from the back of the engine.

Any feedback? Thoughts? Advise? How should I go about trying to pinpoint the source?

Cheers

Last edited by kipp; 12-05-2012 at 12:07 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:43 PM
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First off, you are welcome! I am glad it is being put to good use.

As for the coolant loss, lets reverse this.

So how are you seeing coolant on the floor and knowing it is from the back of the motor?

When you took the top end apart, did you securely fasten the bolts to the water accumulator?

What about the O-rings? Did you lubricate them before putting them in? Did they go into the grooves and seat properly?

I am assuming using the Black RTV, you reused your valley pan. Scraped the gasket off, reapplied the thin bead, let it set for an hour and then se seated it correct? Did the gasket, after you torqued it spill out the sides a bit.. did it squeeze out evenly?

Get back to us.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2012, 08:56 PM
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What you need to do is pressurize the system with a coolant pressure tester, and look for the leak. I recommend removing the entire cabin filter assembly and the engine cover. You need to get the car on a lift and look from below, and also look from the top. To look from the top, you really need to climb up on top of the car and get your head as far back as possible. Arm yourself with an inspection mirror and bright light. Feel around all the hoses until you feel something wet.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:32 PM
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My thought are:

1. If one of the o-rings was badly seated coolant would leak constantly and he would run our of it really fast.
2.I think that it's not difficult to make a good gasket on the old Valley Pan cover,it's easily accessible etc. but...but if OP reused a rear collector manifold gasket with some silicone,there's almost no way to get it right,I struggled to place correctly the Victor Reinz gaskets,one was even torqued with only one hole well set.Thankfully I always double check,I know my own abilities to screw things up the first and the second time.

3. I agree on a point about the correct setting procedure for a gasket maker,did OP do it right?What I think...this isn't a vintage car part that is really difficult to get,WHY don't you get a $90 piece and do it the right way?Wrong place to make economy.Am I wrong?
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  #5  
Old 12-05-2012, 08:23 AM
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Wink

>diyanich

As much as it's possible that the valley pan is still causing the leak, there are several heater hoses between the back of the motor and the firewall that are prone to failure. Some are a royal pita to change, so it's possible many owners don't address them as normal maintence. I just had one fail on my X this week, (one that goes from the back of the engine all the way around to the front). Quite a bitch to change.

These hoses at the back of the motor should definitely be ruled out as a source of coolant leaking onto the transmission before pulling the intake manifold off.
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Last edited by Skyline; 12-05-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2012, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diyanich View Post
My thought are:

1. If one of the o-rings was badly seated coolant would leak constantly and he would run our of it really fast.
2.I think that it's not difficult to make a good gasket on the old Valley Pan cover,it's easily accessible etc. but...but if OP reused a rear collector manifold gasket with some silicone,there's almost no way to get it right,I struggled to place correctly the Victor Reinz gaskets,one was even torqued with only one hole well set.Thankfully I always double check,I know my own abilities to screw things up the first and the second time.

3. I agree on a point about the correct setting procedure for a gasket maker,did OP do it right?What I think...this isn't a vintage car part that is really difficult to get,WHY don't you get a $90 piece and do it the right way?Wrong place to make economy.Am I wrong?

All good advises, been there done it on item 1. This is o-ring on the twin pipes on the WP sides on the M64 V8. Then I mis dianosed it, replaced VP gasket instead which was good and still leaked until I did pressure test. All good for now (knock2 on wood) as far as cooling.
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  #7  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinTurboGTR View Post
First off, you are welcome! I am glad it is being put to good use.

As for the coolant loss, lets reverse this.

So how are you seeing coolant on the floor and knowing it is from the back of the motor?

When you took the top end apart, did you securely fasten the bolts to the water accumulator?

What about the O-rings? Did you lubricate them before putting them in? Did they go into the grooves and seat properly?

I am assuming using the Black RTV, you reused your valley pan. Scraped the gasket off, reapplied the thin bead, let it set for an hour and then se seated it correct? Did the gasket, after you torqued it spill out the sides a bit.. did it squeeze out evenly?

Get back to us.
I park my car over a sheet of dry wall to catch drips. When I see a drip, I lay out some paper towel so I can better identify the fluid. In this case its coolant coming off the the back of the motor, towards the drivers side. If the car's been fully warmed up and been driven about 15 minutes I get about a half cup of coolant on the floor...lets say it sat there for a few hours after driving.

The bolts were fastened correctly. I'd like to point out that initially I could not get the water accumulator back on for some time, and I discovered that there was a piece of the old gasket stick to the engine. After that I made sure all the surfaces were clean...and only then could all the bolts line up and get fully tightened.

You mention the o-rings. I did not lubricate them. Is that just about a guarantee of leakage?

I did put a nice bead of RTV on there and let it set up for about an hour while resting on the engine head in position. I cam back and tightened it down just a wee bit. And in another 30 minutes tightened it down fully. It did not squeeze out in all areas. I would find it difficult to believe this would be such an easy thing to screw up. You're just putting enough on there to close an already very very small gap between the valley pan cover and the block.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline View Post
What you need to do is pressurize the system with a coolant pressure tester, and look for the leak. I recommend removing the entire cabin filter assembly and the engine cover. You need to get the car on a lift and look from below, and also look from the top. To look from the top, you really need to climb up on top of the car and get your head as far back as possible. Arm yourself with an inspection mirror and bright light. Feel around all the hoses until you feel something wet.
You know, you learn something every day. I was not aware of a coolant pressurizer. I was imagining myself heating the system up real good by driving it and crawling around on a hot engine trying to find the leak.

Where do I find one of these tools? This should make it easy to locate...
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diyanich View Post
My thought are:

1. If one of the o-rings was badly seated coolant would leak constantly and he would run our of it really fast.
2.I think that it's not difficult to make a good gasket on the old Valley Pan cover,it's easily accessible etc. but...but if OP reused a rear collector manifold gasket with some silicone,there's almost no way to get it right,I struggled to place correctly the Victor Reinz gaskets,one was even torqued with only one hole well set.Thankfully I always double check,I know my own abilities to screw things up the first and the second time.

3. I agree on a point about the correct setting procedure for a gasket maker,did OP do it right?What I think...this isn't a vintage car part that is really difficult to get,WHY don't you get a $90 piece and do it the right way?Wrong place to make economy.Am I wrong?
I agree on the valley pan gasket. I really did not think I would risk not getting this right. But in hind sight, it took me time to apply and was a source of frustration and anxiety. I would advise anyone who does this procedure to just get a valley pan cover with a pre-installed gasket and save yourself the trouble.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2012, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPIA4v2 View Post
All good advises, been there done it on item 1. This is o-ring on the twin pipes on the WP sides on the M64 V8. Then I mis dianosed it, replaced VP gasket instead which was good and still leaked until I did pressure test. All good for now (knock2 on wood) as far as cooling.
Its easy to see how bad o-rings on the twin pipes to the water accumulator on the back of the engine could be diagnosed as a bad valley pan gasket. But while you're in there it only makes sense to do the VP gasket.

I'm really concerned that by not putting some silicone on the o-rings they are leaking. Doing the job again would no doubt be a lot faster since I don't have to examine everything before I remove it and/or spend so much time thinking things through before I put them back together. Been there done that...and that's why mechanics who've done these jobs a dozen times can get it done so quick. Hell, it took me about three 6 hour segments to do the job that the dealer only charges about 8 hours to do.
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