WOW!!! Tires are expensive.

[fcx56]

As a couple of posters have said already, I have Continental ExtremeContact DWS on my X5 and I couldn't be happier. Excellent handing in wet, above average in the snow, obviously great dry. Only thing with them is they will develop flat spots from sitting for a few days but a couple miles on the road takes care of that. Decent price, too, I had a local shop price match tirerack.com. So far over 15K on them, I'll likely have to replace them a year from autumn which will be 3 years total.

[Quicksilver]

Doesn't Michelin make more than one MXV4?
Which one specifically is OE.

Originally Posted by JCL

MXV4. OE specific tread compound.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Doesn't Michelin make more than one MXV4?
Which one specifically is OE.

Depends which OE version you want. Michelin uses OE codes matched to different tire part numbers for the same size tire.

BM is BMW
HY is Hyundai
GM, MB, and VW are self explanatory
K is Kia
T is Toyota
V is Volvo

The Michelin web site lists the details. I have seen the same codes in local tire store catalogs, although they don't necessarily carry all of them. And only the sizes offered as OE are available in OE versions.

[TwinsPoppa]

Originally Posted by JCL

I am referring here to brands, more than tire models.

I determined it for myself by monitoring returns, customer satisfaction, amount of weight required to balance, etc. Any other mechanic or service shop employee can do the same thing, if they sell a wide variety of tire brands and aren't tied to only one or a few brands. I have friends in the industry, who aren't tied to one or two brands. I ask their opinions as well.

It doesn't mean that every Michelin (for example) is better than every Kumho, but those in the industry will have a general sense of which brands are in their own top two or three, ie which are generally higher quality. Ask lots of those individuals, and you will find a few brands consistently in the top. That is my definition of the top three.

Coincidentally, those tires will generally not be amongst the cheaper tires around. I buy tires so rarely that I choose quality over price point.

Okay, this makes sense. Care to share the other two brands?

[TwinsPoppa]

Originally Posted by JCL

Depends which OE version you want. Michelin uses OE codes matched to different tire part numbers for the same size tire.

BM is BMW
HY is Hyundai
GM, MB, and VW are self explanatory
K is Kia
T is Toyota
V is Volvo

The Michelin web site lists the details. I have seen the same codes in local tire store catalogs, although they don't necessarily carry all of them. And only the sizes offered as OE are available in OE versions.

Thanks for sharing. Useful info. right there.

Originally Posted by JCL

No issue at all with the Pirelli Scorpions, just that the X5 had Michelins with a tread compound that was developed together with BMW specifically for the X5. They worked very well for me. Sold the X5 with 70,000 km and the original tires had approximately 20% tread left. Pirellis on the X3 were replaced at 72,000 km and had enough tread to go 90,000.

Kind of regret I never tried the Michelins.

[Qsilver7]

Originally Posted by JCL

Don't know about a consensus, but my definition {of a "cheap" tire} is a tire that has less money spent on design, testing, manufacturing, and quality control. Those are tires that are designed to compete at a certain price point. Nothing wrong with that, especially if you are selling a vehicle soon and just want something to keep the rims off the pavement. ...

I too appreciate the time taken to put more context into your intial statement. It truly gives those of us less informed, more criteria to consider. Many times the simple use of the word "cheap" can be miscontrued or misinterpreted to represent something as simple as "price point"...whereas an example of the Conti DWS tires cost less than comparable Michelin MXV4...but tend to have really great reviews.

But again, the details you went into in this quote and other subsequent posts later in the thread, really did give a lot more criteria to consider & "chew" on.

Thanks.

[motordavid]

Excellent info, as your usual, JCL!
Thank you...
BR, mD

[JCL]

Originally Posted by TwinsPoppa

Okay, this makes sense. Care to share the other two brands?

Sure, but these are my personal top three, and it isn't an absolute list. If you get 100 people with similar info together, I think you will find that Pirelli and Michelin are often in the top few. I have a lot of respect for Bridgestone, but more so for the winter tires than the summers. Not saying there is anything wrong with the summer tires, but I don't have enough info personally. I think Dunlop make some good tires, and was really happy with my M3 Wintersports, but I think of them like Bridgestone; worth trying, but not up with Michelin and Pirelli across the full range.

I don't know anything about Continental tires in these size ranges. No opinion. But I will say that I buy only Continental GP4000S tires for four bicycles, black chili compound, and I think they are the best clincher bicycle tire that you can buy. They cost just under $100 each, and they are only 23 mm wide. Same philosophy, you get what you pay for.

I put brands like Kumho, General, Firestone, Vredestein, Falken, etc, down a notch or three. They can be cheaper.

Flame away.

[TwinsPoppa]

Originally Posted by JCL

Sure, but these are my personal top three, and it isn't an absolute list. If you get 100 people with similar info together, I think you will find that Pirelli and Michelin are often in the top few. I have a lot of respect for Bridgestone, but more so for the winter tires than the summers. Not saying there is anything wrong with the summer tires, but I don't have enough info personally. I think Dunlop make some good tires, and was really happy with my M3 Wintersports, but I think of them like Bridgestone; worth trying, but not up with Michelin and Pirelli across the full range.

I don't know anything about Continental tires in these size ranges. No opinion. But I will say that I buy only Continental GP4000S tires for four bicycles, black chili compound, and I think they are the best clincher bicycle tire that you can buy. They cost just under $100 each, and they are only 23 mm wide. Same philosophy, you get what you pay for.

I put brands like Kumho, General, Firestone, Vredestein, Falken, etc, down a notch or three. They can be cheaper.

Flame away.

There will be no flaming coming from me, at least, that's for sure.

I was pretty confident of what brands you were going to mention but even more curious as to see if you would mention Goodyear, and where it would be on your list - which you just happen to not mention.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by TwinsPoppa

Kind of regret I never tried the Michelins.

Some more context may help.

When the X5 came out, Michelin worked with BMW to come up with a specific version of the 17 and 18 inch standard tires. I don't have all the details, but I expect that they played with tread compound, sidewall stiffness, and tread pattern (in varying degrees) to tune the tire to the X5 standard suspension, reducing harshness and matching turn-in to the suspension settings.

Whether that matters to a purchaser of replacement tires partly depends on whether that purchaser values that original tuning, ie how close did it come to what each person wants out of their vehicle. There was an optimization process, but if an individual's first action is to lower the suspension, put on aftermarket shocks, add spacers, etc, then the original tuning is pretty much all for naught. It just doesn't matter. But for me, I liked the original ride and handling, and the tire was a good fit for my intended use. I also got very good life out of them. I don't blindly buy OE parts; brake pads are a good example of me going my own way. But when it works, I will carry on with it.

Another thought that should enter into this is wheel size. Some will protest strongly at this, but the E53 was designed for 17 inch wheels. The 4.6 had 18 inch wheels to accomodate larger brakes, but aside from that low volume model, the vehicle 'works best' on 17 inch tires. Obviously, to many people, it looks under tired and they want 18, 19, 20, 22, etc. Fair enough. I am not making a value judgement here. But the vehicle has the same suspension whichever tire size it has. All the issues related to inner tread wear on the rear tires, camber kits, worn suspension bushings, etc, are made much worse by running larger tires. I don't think people appreciate how much more loaded the suspension is with larger tires, and thus how much sooner it will require repair or overhaul. And that extends to tire wear rates, which impacts our judgement on how good or bad a tire is.