WOW!!! Tires are expensive. - Page 6

JCL · #51 03-13-2013, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwinsPoppa

There will be no flaming coming from me, at least, that's for sure.

I was pretty confident of what brands you were going to mention but even more curious as to see if you would mention Goodyear, and where it would be on your list - which you just happen to not mention.

OK. Lower than Pirelli and Michelin. Higher than General and Kumho. And indirectly, I did mention them, since they own Dunlop. Which I like. They also own Kelly Springfield and Cooper, which I put quite a bit lower. And they do contract manufacturing for department stores, which I put even lower.

Edit: I guess that brings up the issue of tire company consolidation. I would put BF Goodrich in the middle somewhere, and don't give them any points for now being owned by Michelin. I ignored Bridgestone, but would have put them higher than I would have put a product from the combined Bridgestone/Firestone company that exists today. And all of this is across the brand; individual tire models may be much better or worse than this subjective ranking in a particular application.

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TwinsPoppa · #52 03-13-2013, 03:47 PM

Sounds about right to me. I don't think the 4.6/4.8 makes enough power that it couldn't run/handle similar with smaller wheel and tires.

I think most would agree marketing/image has a lot to do with it.

If people read what you wrote objectively, they will understand that you're not against anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

Some more context may help.

When the X5 came out, Michelin worked with BMW to come up with a specific version of the 17 and 18 inch standard tires. I don't have all the details, but I expect that they played with tread compound, sidewall stiffness, and tread pattern (in varying degrees) to tune the tire to the X5 standard suspension, reducing harshness and matching turn-in to the suspension settings.

Whether that matters to a purchaser of replacement tires partly depends on whether that purchaser values that original tuning, ie how close did it come to what each person wants out of their vehicle. There was an optimization process, but if an individual's first action is to lower the suspension, put on aftermarket shocks, add spacers, etc, then the original tuning is pretty much all for naught. It just doesn't matter. But for me, I liked the original ride and handling, and the tire was a good fit for my intended use. I also got very good life out of them. I don't blindly buy OE parts; brake pads are a good example of me going my own way. But when it works, I will carry on with it.

Another thought that should enter into this is wheel size. Some will protest strongly at this, but the E53 was designed for 17 inch wheels. The 4.6 had 18 inch wheels to accomodate larger brakes, but aside from that low volume model, the vehicle 'works best' on 17 inch tires. Obviously, to many people, it looks under tired and they want 18, 19, 20, 22, etc. Fair enough. I am not making a value judgement here. But the vehicle has the same suspension whichever tire size it has. All the issues related to inner tread wear on the rear tires, camber kits, worn suspension bushings, etc, are made much worse by running larger tires. I don't think people appreciate how much more loaded the suspension is with larger tires, and thus how much sooner it will require repair or overhaul. And that extends to tire wear rates, which impacts our judgement on how good or bad a tire is.

TwinsPoppa · #53 03-13-2013, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

OK. Lower than Pirelli and Michelin. Higher than General and Kumho. And indirectly, I did mention them, since they own Dunlop. Which I like. They also own Kelly Springfield and Cooper, which I put quite a bit lower. And they do contract manufacturing for department stores, which I put even lower.

You are just full of information! I didn't know about their ownership of the other brands.

I always look forward to your replies on all threads.

JCL · #54 03-13-2013, 04:06 PM

Thanks, I am glad if any of it helps.

There is a back story. I originally wrote "life is too short for cheap tires" which expressed my philosophy, but certainly was a bit cryptic. It was posted because I sat there with a glass of red wine on the sofa as I posted. The wine glass sat on a wooden coaster that said "life is too short for cheap wine". I guess I have the same philosophy about performance tires and red wine.

FSETH · #55 03-13-2013, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCL

OK. Lower than Pirelli and Michelin. Higher than General and Kumho. And indirectly, I did mention them, since they own Dunlop. Which I like. They also own Kelly Springfield and Cooper, which I put quite a bit lower. And they do contract manufacturing for department stores, which I put even lower.

Edit: I guess that brings up the issue of tire company consolidation. I would put BF Goodrich in the middle somewhere, and don't give them any points for now being owned by Michelin. I ignored Bridgestone, but would have put them higher than I would have put a product from the combined Bridgestone/Firestone company that exists today. And all of this is across the brand; individual tire models may be much better or worse than this subjective ranking in a particular application.

Not exactly X5 related or an indication of the entire range of tires, but BF Goodrich has come a long way in performance tires over the past year or two. The g-Force Sport Comp 2 (Ultra High Performance Summer) and g-Force Rival (Extreme Performance Summer) tires are doing really well in all major reviews. I think Michelin is really trying to push the performance side of the Goodrich brand. I have spoken to a few people at TireRack as well as spent a ton of time reading reviews for the Sport Comp 2 and they are basically the best tire in the Ultra High Performance Summer catagory. Pirelli, on the other hand has fallen off big time, imo as far as true performance tires are concerned. Sure they make a few special application tires for certain cars, but mostly, they are overpriced and really not rated very well. I agree with you that Michelin is the top dog overall. Their lineup is unrivaled. The Pilot Super Sport is hands down the best all around Max Performance Summer tire you could buy according to pretty much everyone.

giodog2000 · #56 03-13-2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FSETH

Not exactly X5 related or an indication of the entire range of tires, but BF Goodrich has come a long way in performance tires over the past year or two. The g-Force Sport Comp 2 (Ultra High Performance Summer) and g-Force Rival (Extreme Performance Summer) tires are doing really well in all major reviews. I think Michelin is really trying to push the performance side of the Goodrich brand. I have spoken to a few people at TireRack as well as spent a ton of time reading reviews for the Sport Comp 2 and they are basically the best tire in the Ultra High Performance Summer catagory. Pirelli, on the other hand has fallen off big time, imo as far as true performance tires are concerned. Sure they make a few special application tires for certain cars, but mostly, they are overpriced and really not rated very well. I agree with you that Michelin is the top dog overall. Their lineup is unrivaled. The Pilot Super Sport is hands down the best all around Max Performance Summer tire you could buy according to pretty much everyone.

I had some G-Force on my M3 and was very satisfied with them...and i think they would look even better on the X

FSETH · #57 03-13-2013, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by giodog2000

I had some G-Force on my M3 and was very satisfied with them...and i think they would look even better on the X

Good to hear. I am getting the new Sport Comp 2's on my M3 this weekend after much research. Although they are only Ultra High Performance Summer tires, they actually perform better than many Max Performance Summer tires. There is some overlap between these categories. Max Performance doesn't necessarily mean it is better than UHPS.

blktoptrvl · #58 03-13-2013, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Anybody tried these?

255 55 18 or 255 55R18 Discount Tires Sumitomo Tires HTR SPORT H/P 255/55R18 109H BW A/S

I have these tires on two sports cars, I like them. Don't know how they are on SUV, but mine grip well and shed water well.

blktoptrvl · #59 03-13-2013, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qsilver7

BTW...what is the consensus for the definition of a "cheap" tire? Is it made from inferior rubber compounds...is it prone to disentegrating or blow-outs...is it a tire known for wearing fast or only achieving low mileage (that would be most summer tires)...or is it just a tire manufacture that doesn't have a big advertising budget or doesn't advertise much in the country you live?

Or maybe they are trying to break into a new market and selling good tires at a cheap price.