webasto thermotopz auxilliary heater

[omodos]

For all you fellas n ladies out there who have one of these installed..and let me clarify this is for the Z webasto with no remote control etc or parking heater option... I had a question and answer session with webasto support, not too sure about the power from alternator point they make, i guess he meant the extra battery strain is handled by the alternator:

Dear Sir,

The heater will start after the engine is running, so it takes its power of the alternator instead of from the battery.
There is only a little bit of electricity required to start up the Thermo Top Z (fuel pump, combustion air fan and glow plug)

Best regards,
Harold Slot






Dear Harold,

Thankyou for reply, do you know if the thermotopzstatring put's a greater strain on vehicle battery at startup of vehcile when the conditions you mention about outside temp 5c and coolant 80c is met?




Dear Mr Nicolas,

The Thermo Top Z will help heat the engine coolant when:
Engine is running, outside temperature is below 5 degrees and the coolant temperature is below 80 degrees.

This way the engine and interior will heat up quickly after the car is started.

Met vriendelijke groeten,
Best Regards,
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Meilleures salutations,

Harold Slot
International Technical Support Engineer

Webasto Thermo & Comfort Benelux BV

[racingbmwm3]

not having a diesel or knowing what the Webasto is, just from an electrical point of view, yes. Any electrical consumers will get their power from the alternator if the vehicle is running. BUT, the alternator makes very little power at idle and thus, many large electrical loads at idle can still drain the battery. While driving, the alternator should make enough power to run all factory loads AND recharge the battery.
Maybe a good question to ask them would be what is the current/amperage draw of the Webasto when it is running?

[omodos]

Hi here are the feeds the heater uses not sure but if it is on full oad and used the circulation pump the total load is like 46w, is that too much of a draw? ....either way this heater thermotopZ is used to warm the engine coolant when temp of coolant is under 60C AND the outside temps is under 5c.....at the bottom i have included a full list of how it works taken off webastos site, and attached a pdf.....if anyone else interested....

Heater

Nominal voltage12 V
Operating voltage range10.5 ... 15 V

Nominal power consumption without circulation pump (without vehicle air fan)
Full load 32w
Part load 18 W

With Circulation pump

Nominal power consumption14 W


ThermoTopZ/C3FunctionalDescription3013.Functional Description3.1Functional Description Thermo Top Z (Supplementary Heater)

3.1.1Switch On/StartingFuelWhen starting the vehicle engine the heater goes in standby. With a water circuit temperature below 60 °C and an outside temperature below 5 °C (option with outside temperature sensor) the starting sequence commences.The glow plug and the combustion air fan are activated. After 30 seconds the fuel dosing pump starts operation and combustion air fan operation is suspended for 3seconds. Subsequently the combustion air fan speed is increased in a ramp within 57 seconds to nearly full load operation.After reaching full load fuel delivery within this period the glow plug is deactivated and the combustion air fan operation increased to full load.During the subsequent 45 seconds as well as in normal operation the glow plug functions as flame sensor to monitor the flame condition.After all these events the automatically controlled heating operation starts. In case of a no flame condition or a flameout, a restart is automatically initiated. If the no flame condition persists, fuel delivery is stopped and the heaters enters an error lockout with a run-down of the combustion air fan.DieselWhen starting the vehicle engine the heater goes in standby. With a water circuit temperature below 60 °C and an outside temperature below 5 °C (option with outside temperature sensor) the starting sequence commences.The glow plug and the combustion air fan are activated. After 30 seconds the fuel dosing pump starts operation and combustion air fan operation is suspended for 3seconds. Subsequently the combustion air fan speed is increased in two ramps within 56 seconds to nearly full load operation. After a stabilisation phase (constant speed) of 15 seconds the combustion air fan speed is again increased in a ramp within 50 seconds to nearly full load.After reaching full load fuel delivery the glow plug is deactivated and the combustion air fan operation increased to full load.During the subsequent 45 seconds as well as in normal operation the glow plug functions as flame sensor to monitor the flame condition.After all these events the automatically controlled heating operation starts. In case of a no flame condition or a flameout, a restart is automatically initiated. If the no flame condition persists, fuel delivery is stopped and the heater enters an error lockout with a run-down of the combustion air fan.A flameout during normal combustion operation causes an automatic restart.
3.1.2Heating OperationFuelWhen the temperature rises to reach 72 °C the heater switches to the energy saving part load operation. A rise in temperature up to 76.5 °C causes the heater to enter a control idle period. This also happens when exceeding a total heating operating time of 76 minutes.After cool-down of the coolant to 71 °C the heater resumes part load operation. Another rise in temperature to 76.5 °C causes the heater to enter again the control idle period. A drop in the coolant temperature during part load operation due to an increased demand in heat will cause the heater to switch to full load operation at 56 °C.
DieselHeating operation for the Diesel type heater is identical in the sequence of events. Should the coolant temperature drop during the control idle period to but not below 71 °C within 900 seconds, a subsequent drop in the coolant temperature below 71 °C causes the heater to perform a regular starting sequence into full load operation.A drop in the coolant temperature during part load operation due to an increased demand in heat will cause the heater to switch to full load operation at 65 °C.3.1.3
Switch Off/DeactivationWhen turning the engine off the heater is deactivated. Combustion stops and run-down commences. The combustion air fan first continues operation to cool the heater down (run-down) to be automatically switched off afterwards.NOTEThe run-down time and the combustion air fan speed depend on the heater operating condition at the time of deactivation.Run-down time is for:Fuel168 seconds when deactivated in full load operation and157 seconds when deactivated in part load operation.Diesel175 seconds when deactivated in full load operation and100 seconds when deactivated in part load operation.Dependent on the software variant implemented in the control unit there might be deviations from those run-down periods.

[rolfi]

The webasto doesn't drain any noticeable amount of battery.
The only time I can feel the battery drain, is when I have used the webasto as a parking heater. It cranks a little bit slower than usual.

I understand you don't have the parking heater function available.

If you're running short trips only, and don't let the engine warm up, the webasto will run for a short time after you've stopped the engine. It's not enough to drain your battery, so don't worry.

My battery is the original one, 10 years old. It's not as good as new, but not bad enough to give me any problems at all. When I can run the webasto as a parking heater with no problems, you shoudn't have to worry about letting it run as it's supposed to, with your fresh battery.

[omodos]

Originally Posted by rolfi

The webasto doesn't drain any noticeable amount of battery.
The only time I can feel the battery drain, is when I have used the webasto as a parking heater. It cranks a little bit slower than usual.

I understand you don't have the parking heater function available.

If you're running short trips only, and don't let the engine warm up, the webasto will run for a short time after you've stopped the engine. It's not enough to drain your battery, so don't worry.

My battery is the original one, 10 years old. It's not as good as new, but not bad enough to give me any problems at all. When I can run the webasto as a parking heater with no problems, you shoudn't have to worry about letting it run as it's supposed to, with your fresh battery.

Ok thanks Rolfi, yup dont have the parking heater option and recently installed a bosch silver plus battery, my original was showing the black dot insufficiently charged and even after 24hours on a slow external charger still showed insufficiently charged.....but again was ok to start when temps where in the 20c's but as temps dropped it wouldn't start on first turn of ignition , on a side note I 'held' up old battery to light and saw that the acid level looked fine, but could see dark crud in each cell, uneven levels in each cell, are these the plates that have 'corroded' hence my battery not reaching full capacity anymore?

[rolfi]

Originally Posted by omodos

Ok thanks Rolfi, yup dont have the parking heater option and recently installed a bosch silver plus battery, my original was showing the black dot insufficiently charged and even after 24hours on a slow external charger still showed insufficiently charged.....but again was ok to start when temps where in the 20c's but as temps dropped it wouldn't start on first turn of ignition , on a side note I 'held' up old battery to light and saw that the acid level looked fine, but could see dark crud in each cell, uneven levels in each cell, are these the plates that have 'corroded' hence my battery not reaching full capacity anymore?

My battery isn't as bad as your old was, yet. I'll replace it if I start experiencing the weird electrical issues a bad battery can cause, or if I have problems starting the engine. Until then, it works for me

I don't know much about how batteries work. That's one of the very few things I just replace when they're broken, and don't try pulling apart and getting knowledge of how they work.

[racingbmwm3]

46W would be 4 amps of current. Nominal means it's variable and not actual values, could be more or less. Let's say your new battery is 100amp-hours, you theoretically could get 25 hours of running an ideal Webasto. But then you would also have a completely deaf battery.
How long do you drive everyday? Average length of time per trip. You need at least 10 minutes of driving to recharge your battery from the drain of starting the engine. If you are running lots of other electrical loads it could take longer. If you are driving about 30 minutes, then my opinion is you should be ok. If only a few minutes, then you should do like i do for our 4.6 and hook up a trickle charger on the weekends, or in your case you could hook up the charger whenever you are using the Webasto.

[omodos]

Originally Posted by racingbmwm3

46W would be 4 amps of current. Nominal means it's variable and not actual values, could be more or less. Let's say your new battery is 100amp-hours, you theoretically could get 25 hours of running an ideal Webasto. But then you would also have a completely deaf battery.
How long do you drive everyday? Average length of time per trip. You need at least 10 minutes of driving to recharge your battery from the drain of starting the engine. If you are running lots of other electrical loads it could take longer. If you are driving about 30 minutes, then my opinion is you should be ok. If only a few minutes, then you should do like i do for our 4.6 and hook up a trickle charger on the weekends, or in your case you could hook up the charger whenever you are using the Webasto.

racingbmwm3 I don't do the X5 justice in terms of driving, I do a school run! that equates to about 20mins of driving mon-fri, and weekends maybe about 40mins max, and maybe once a month do the odd 100mile round trip to the capital on the island....

i have a solar panel type trickle charger and may hook this up but have to unhook each time i start car otherwise it will get damaged as cigarette lighter socket will 'power' it up! thinking of chopping cable and installing an on off switch so i can click it off when starting car, and on when letting car rest.....

[TerminatorX5]

the solar panel will not keep up with the battery - too little power... and you don't need to unhook it, the built in diode will prevent any back flow of electricity or drainage of the battery...

[omodos]

the installation guide says disconnect it when starting driving the car....hmmmm