Keep Sinking Money or New Engine?

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

People that buys a new car normally do not keep the car beyond the warranty period. The free maintenance program is just a marketing ploy by all the car makers to attract car buyers. If you change the oil every 3,000 miles or 7500 mile you would have change the oil 5 times or twice before the free 15,000 miles maintenance kicks in. BMW is just hoping the car last beyond their warranty period with their free maintenance. After that they don't give a rat ass about the car since it will be "Out of warranty". Try asking a BMW dealer to do a transmission fluid change and they will tell you the ATF is "Life Time". You couldn't even pay them to do a ATF change.

It's call plan obsolescence. BMW make their money from selling new cars. If cars last as long as refrigerators all the car maker will only be building cars to replace cars that are no longer operational. Do you buy a new refrig every 5 years? We have a Sub Zero for the last 15 years and if it broke down we will get it fix since they offer a 10 years warranty on their frig.

The hole in your opinion is that BMW is not the only mfg. out there. There is competition also based on features and benefits. I don't believe there is any brand that intends to survive, let alone thrive, that would ever have a objective or strategy in their business plan that can in any way be interpreted as planned obsolescence.

The free maintenance program is an example. It is there to either meet or exceed the warranties (features/benefits) of brands BMW identifies as direct competition, benchmarking brands or to be the industry benchmark. A marketing program is not empty hype. Marketing programs are tactics to meet business plan objectives. Inherent in marketing programs are to meet or exceed customers expectations.

The products of each industry have unique features/benefits as do the brands within. The expectation of SubZero customers is both unique to that brand and to that industry and not applicable to the auto industry except that both BMW and SubZero are considered high end brands that deliver quality and performance. Our SubZero frig meets or exceeds our customer expectations. Our experience with BMWs parallels.

The capability to do your own repairs is a good thing regardless of the brand, huge cost savings, but not a necessity depending on how you measure value. The value equation of an owner is unique, not transferable to another.

[bcredliner]

Not saying it is not, but I am not convinced the problem is, valve stem seals. One reason is that you are not seeing oil smoke that often and even then it doesn't sound like it is severe. Another is that only one cylinder is problematic. I would be sure that valve seals need to be replaced, at least get a second opinion from a well recommended BMW Indy mechanic.

I think it is better to stay with the engine you have rather than purchase an engine without any history. Almost always better to deal with the devil you know rather than the one you don't know.

First I would have the engine checked for any error codes. Depending on the findings, I would have a compression, leak down and smoke test done and go from there.

[upallnight]

We are all aware of the "Mayo" problem with BMW engines. More frequent oil change would help to diminish the problem, while longer oil change will exacerbate the problem.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

We are all aware of the "Mayo" problem with BMW engines. More frequent oil change would help to diminish the problem, while longer oil change will exacerbate the problem.

Yes, Mayo problem is widely known. It is also widely known that, assuming the CCV system is not clogged--that would be covered under warranty, the simple solution is take a drive once in a while that is long enough that the engine gets to operating temp for a period of time. I would expect the dealer to advise the owner to do so when the see it during the oil change. I think it is a reach that the dealer would attempt, let alone be successful, deeming mayo condition as a violation of warranty. It's far more likely they would install the cold weather CCV system and advise the preventative measure mentioned above.

Have you heard of a voided warranty due to the mayo issue. I haven't.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by trader4

If it's a mayo problem, then the CCV system can be clogged, that is the essence of the problem, so I don't see the point there. The drain back to the oil sump is part of the system. I also don't see any evidence that a long drive is the solution to the problem. I agree short drives probably make it worse, but I don't agree that just taking it for an occasional long drive solves it. I see a lot of people having the oil separator problem, regardless of how the car is driven.

Also, it's another example of a screwy BMW design. This is the first engine that I've heard of where a CCV valve can cause all the sump oil to get sucked into the engine, causing hydrolock.

Please explain to me why you own an X5 when you have had all the issues you mention. I am not able to see the logic.

[upallnight]

Since the CCV is located outside of the engine, taking it for a long drive has very little effect once the problem begins. The heat from the engine to burn off any mayo in the CCV will not occur because the CCV is located away from the engine.

On my PORSCHE I see mayo forming in the oil tank but it has a standard PVC system and I know of no incidences on any of the PORSCHE forums where any members have hydrolock their engines due to mayo. Later PORSCHE have adopted a similar CCV system and there are postings of problem with the system.

Mayo is formed when water vapor mixes with the oil. Water vapor will always be a problem since it is part of the combustion process. Sludge is similar to mayo and Toyota has address this issue in their cars by advising the owners to do more frequent oil changes.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Since the CCV is located outside of the engine, taking it for a long drive has very little effect once the problem begins. The heat from the engine to burn off any mayo in the CCV will not occur because the CCV is located away from the engine.

On my PORSCHE I see mayo forming in the oil tank but it has a standard PVC system and I know of no incidences on any of the PORSCHE forums where any members have hydrolock their engines due to mayo. Later PORSCHE have adopted a similar CCV system and there are postings of problem with the system.

Mayo is formed when water vapor mixes with the oil. Water vapor will always be a problem since it is part of the combustion process. Sludge is similar to mayo and Toyota has address this issue in their cars by advising the owners to do more frequent oil changes.

I agree that changing the oil more frequently will help remove condensation if it has not been 'burned' off by driving. I also agree that it won't help clear up the CCV if it has already become a problem. That is not the primary topic of this exchange.

The topic of this exchange was the implication there is a hidden agenda in the warranty to contribute to the goal of planned obsolescence. The mayo problem was listed as endorsement and as an example how BMW uses disclaimers to void the warranty repair if the mayo problem occurs.

I don't agree there is anything in BMW objectives that even smells of planned obsolescence.

I don't agree that a warranty disclaimer will be used to void the warranty if the mayo condition happens as long as the oil is changed within the 15,000 mile parameter of the warranty.

I think it a stretch to say the disclaimer highlighted considers the cause of the mayo problem to be harsh conditions. Even if BMW considers it applicable, as long as all warranty service is done by BMW they are responsible for adjusting service parameters for harsh conditions. I agree the owner could be charged for the oil change. I have never heard of that, have you or anyone else here? I would expect lots of noise about it if that were the case.

Water vapor is an issue rather than a problem. Some mfgs addressed the issue better than others so it didn't become a problem. You may, but I don't, have documentation where BMW fell in a 1-10 range with the E53 engines.

In most of this I read conjecture. You may be absolutely correct but just saying it is true doesn't make it so.

As a side note--why is Porsche in all caps?

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

................................

As a side note--why is Porsche in all caps?

That is the branding for PORSCHE.



Some time I refer to our car as BMUU (Because most Americans pronounce it B M double U) and not B M Vay as it is pronounced in Germany.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by upallnight

That is the branding for PORSCHE.



Some time I refer to our car as BMUU (Because most Americans pronounce it B M double U) and not B M Vay as it is pronounced in Germany.

And Germans pronounce "AMG" as "I am gay".

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

That is the branding for PORSCHE.



Some time I refer to our car as BMUU (Because most Americans pronounce it B M double U) and not B M Vay as it is pronounced in Germany.

Detail, but, what you pictured is the brand logo. It is registered with a definitive description of color, typeface, sizes, etc. The Porsche brand logo includes the crest. The brand name is Porsche and it is not necessary to type it in all caps to be correct.