Keep Sinking Money or New Engine?

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Is your point what is excluded should be included in the warranty?

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

I have never heard of that happening but I can see how it could. Is that something that BMW is known to do?

That or a similar disclaimer is in every vehicle warranty I have read. My experience with Dealers is they relish the opportunity to do warranty work rather than see if they can find something that voids the warranty.

[Doru]

Originally Posted by upallnight

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

AFAIK the on-board computer will alter by itself the mileage if there's lot of idling involved - it will get shorter, and BMW will warrant the oil change. However, said oil change will be still long due....

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by upallnight

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

The BMW SII uses fuel consumption to calculate oil changes.

A vehicle used for short trips/extended idle will show an SII oil change required LONG before 15k miles are traveled.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by trader4

IDK what exactly the BMW system monitors, but in general, I thought that cars with similar systems do monitor a number of driving parameters, including short trips, to determine how soon an oil change is due.

And IDK what data those that say the oil isn't being changed frequently enough are relying on. There are a wide array of opinions. Jiffy Lube will tell you to change oil at 3000, whether it's conventional or synthetic. I think that's nuts and they have no data to back it up. Is going to 15K the best practice? Probably not, even BMW apparently has now reduced it to 10K. Is it based soley on saving BMW the cost of oil changes on the first 100K miles? I don't think so. For example, my Porsche 911 also had a 15K oil change recommendation and it did not have any free oil change program period. The tradeoff of having cars with engines that are shot at just past 100K miles, while saving the small cost of 3 additional oil changes, isn't one that I think a rational manufacturer would make.

I think pushing the oil change interval can have an effect on the life of an engine. But I don't see following the BMW suggested oil change interval being the reason a car needs a new timing chain, new valve seals, has all kinds of leaking gaskets, etc at 100K. There are a lot of other quality related problems with these cars, eg window regulators that break and fall down, CV boots that fail at 3X the rate of other cars, FSR blower resistors that suck, an aux fan from hell, etc. How about that great oil separator design, that when it fails, can trash the whole engine? And most of those things are ones that decent replacement parts could easily fix over the last 14 years, yet we still have the same sucky parts. So, I don't buy that the engine problems are necessarily the result of 15K oil changes.

The newer (post-'06) SII oil monitor system monitors operating temps, dusty condition (with the HVAC auto-recirc dust sensor) and conductivity of oil (dirty/thin oil has a different electrical resistance then clean/new oil).

I change oil at 60% SII oil life (3rd green LED goes out, so does the oil/filter).

I avoid Iffy Lube at all cost, they don't stock BMW filters and fill with non-LL-01 spec bulk oil, sometimes a recycled blend! Seen too many stripped oil pans that they claim "were that way when it came in"!!!

I'm still running OE TC guides at 185k miles, and 3 FSR changes, 2 don't count, went with $40 e-bay FSR that failed in a few mos, returned for exchange and replacement failed too. $130 BMW sourced FSR has worked fine for over 3 yrs now.

[cn90]

@X5DC,

The home mechanic (actually the guy is a master tech at BMW dealer) option of $2500 is a good deal, IMHO. This job requires tools, expertise and many back-breaking labor hours.

Look at it this way: budget $3000 ---> $2500 for the job and $500 for a trip to NYC, which is about 4h drive from Washington DC...

- PM the master tech and arrange a free weekend.
- Let's say drop the car very early Saturday AM, such as 8AM. Leave your house at 4AM...lol..
- Go and enjoy NYC, concerts, dinner, sight-seeing on a Saturday night.
- By Sunday afternoon, the car should be ready.
- Ask the home mechanic if he can give you some type of warranty.

Just read that thread that I linked on the previous page.

$3K for this car is worth it because once this problem is fixed, the car will be fine for another 100K w/o valve stem seals issues.

[jcp240z]

Looked at the rebuilt engine and would have many questions. The internals (bearings, rings, pistons) are pretty much bulletproof if oil is maintained. On the BMW engines it is the seals and gaskets that are the issue. The ebay motor said they did all the internals. Since the block uses a Alumisil Harding process for the bores, are they qualified to redo it?
I just went through my motor, had it pulled and went through it all and replaced everything. I didn't do valve seals (not a issue on the M62 motors). Cost was about $6000

[Ricky Bobby]

sounds like you're on the wrong forum.

BMW does recommend the 15k specs because they have to be able to offer a "no cost maintenance" plan for the life of the warranty. As opposed to Toyota who did a "toyota care" with 10k intervals for life of the warranty. It's all about competition.

I recommend 5-7k max OCI or once a year whatever comes first. Main reason why I won't be buying new bimmers used, the maintenance schedule is terrible. You think a brake fluid drain/flush is included on the 4 year 50k maintenance plan, even though its recommended every 2? Absolutely not.

Sure these Bimmers require more maintenance than a Honda CRV but if you actually drove one of those you would understand what falling asleep behind the wheel means....

[Ricky Bobby]

Originally Posted by trader4

Nobody forced BMW to offer a no cost maintenance program. That they chose to offer it, doesn't mean that somehow gives them the right to spec maintenance intervals that are irresponsible. For the record, I agree that I would change the oil at 7500 to 10K. But I don't buy that the gaskets all start leaking, the timing chain is kaput, etc on a car at 100K from changing the oil at 15K either.

Regarding the driving experience, that doesn't excuse building crappy engines that need a new timing chain at 100K miles. For the record, those Honda CRVs all went 200K with the original CV boots too. The way those, the air intake bellows, various seals, gaskets all fail reapeatedly on these cars, it sure sounds to me like BMW has some serious problems, probably with quality control of suppliers. It's almost like the supplier must be the brother in law of the CEO. But feel free to make excuses for them so instead of fixing those issues, they can just
keep doing the same thing and you all can have the wonderful BMW experience.

I have a pretty wonderful BMW experience, I have the I6. With a manual transmission. And its been well maintained by me since I picked up ownership at 59k miles, I have no complaints.

Most of my repairs are more age related than anything.

The I6 BMW's are historically pretty solid, although they have weak points. The V8's are the ones with gaskets, timing chains, etc problems, and obviously the auto trans could be great or have a shorter life, although I can't comment on it.


Bottom line is most of these threads nowadays are people who are 3rd, 4th, 5th owners of these vehicles and its sad but when you go through that many owners without much maintenance history more often than not you have these kinds of issues.

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by trader4

Nobody forced BMW to offer a no cost maintenance program. That they chose to offer it, doesn't mean that somehow gives them the right to spec maintenance intervals that are irresponsible. For the record, I agree that I would change the oil at 7500 to 10K. But I don't buy that the gaskets all start leaking, the timing chain is kaput, etc on a car at 100K from changing the oil at 15K either.

Regarding the driving experience, that doesn't excuse building crappy engines that need a new timing chain at 100K miles. For the record, those Honda CRVs all went 200K with the original CV boots too. The way those, the air intake bellows, various seals, gaskets all fail reapeatedly on these cars, it sure sounds to me like BMW has some serious problems, probably with quality control of suppliers. It's almost like the supplier must be the brother in law of the CEO. But feel free to make excuses for them so instead of fixing those issues, they can just
keep doing the same thing and you all can have the wonderful BMW experience.

People that buys a new car normally do not keep the car beyond the warranty period. The free maintenance program is just a marketing ploy by all the car makers to attract car buyers. If you change the oil every 3,000 miles or 7500 mile you would have change the oil 5 times or twice before the free 15,000 miles maintenance kicks in. BMW is just hoping the car last beyond their warranty period with their free maintenance. After that they don't give a rat ass about the car since it will be "Out of warranty". Try asking a BMW dealer to do a transmission fluid change and they will tell you the ATF is "Life Time". You couldn't even pay them to do a ATF change.

It's call plan obsolescence. BMW make their money from selling new cars. If cars last as long as refrigerators all the car maker will only be building cars to replace cars that are no longer operational. Do you buy a new refrig every 5 years? We have a Sub Zero for the last 15 years and if it broke down we will get it fix since they offer a 10 years warranty on their frig.