Keep Sinking Money or New Engine?

[Jungerishere]

I see your frustration with your own experience. I’m not disagreeing with you that E53 X5 isn’t the most reliable car. My E34 has close to quarter of a million miles now and she still runs like she did when she was at 50k miles and has been very reliable (she is almost 20 years old => recent picture below) but I have taken good care of her. My X5 still has very low miles at 57k and haven’t had any problems yet other than alternator bracket gasket. I have also taken good care of her. Every marques have their issues. My friend’s Cayenne Turbo has plastic coolant pipe issues, oil leaks, and random electrical issues. My neighbor’s ML550 had steering pump failure, null electronic transmission issues, and ignition failure and it is only few years old! My friend’s Jeep Grand Cherokee had cam bearing failure. And the list goes on...

Originally Posted by trader4

So performance and luxury means the CV boots should rip at 50K, while Honda last 3X+ on a car that costs half as much? That the window regulators should break, with the windows crashing down, breaking into bits? I've gone through 3 window regulators on this X5. In 4 decades of owning various cars, I've had exactly one other window regulator fail. And that was in a MB when I took it to the car wash when it was 20F out and later tried to open a window to pay a toll. It was frozen and it broke. The X5? It's windows fall down sitting in the driveway. How about the infamous FSR blower resistor? They've been failing for a decade. Or the aux cooling fans, with the miracle PWM design, that fail one after the other, and cost $450. That's luxury/performance? And then you have folks here telling the guy that he should expect to have to replace all the gaskets and seals at 100K, because they are known to leak? Good grief, that's not how cars are supposed to be built.

None of that has anything to do with luxury, performance, or 15K oil changes. It's bad design, crappy parts. I'm not saying they do everything wrong, but they sure have enough things very wrong with these cars and I'm going to tell the truth, not make excuses.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

People that buys a new car normally do not keep the car beyond the warranty period. The free maintenance program is just a marketing ploy by all the car makers to attract car buyers. If you change the oil every 3,000 miles or 7500 mile you would have change the oil 5 times or twice before the free 15,000 miles maintenance kicks in. BMW is just hoping the car last beyond their warranty period with their free maintenance. After that they don't give a rat ass about the car since it will be "Out of warranty". Try asking a BMW dealer to do a transmission fluid change and they will tell you the ATF is "Life Time". You couldn't even pay them to do a ATF change.

It's call plan obsolescence. BMW make their money from selling new cars. If cars last as long as refrigerators all the car maker will only be building cars to replace cars that are no longer operational. Do you buy a new refrig every 5 years? We have a Sub Zero for the last 15 years and if it broke down we will get it fix since they offer a 10 years warranty on their frig.

The hole in your opinion is that BMW is not the only mfg. out there. There is competition also based on features and benefits. I don't believe there is any brand that intends to survive, let alone thrive, that would ever have a objective or strategy in their business plan that can in any way be interpreted as planned obsolescence.

The free maintenance program is an example. It is there to either meet or exceed the warranties (features/benefits) of brands BMW identifies as direct competition, benchmarking brands or to be the industry benchmark. A marketing program is not empty hype. Marketing programs are tactics to meet business plan objectives. Inherent in marketing programs are to meet or exceed customers expectations.

The products of each industry have unique features/benefits as do the brands within. The expectation of SubZero customers is both unique to that brand and to that industry and not applicable to the auto industry except that both BMW and SubZero are considered high end brands that deliver quality and performance. Our SubZero frig meets or exceeds our customer expectations. Our experience with BMWs parallels.

The capability to do your own repairs is a good thing regardless of the brand, huge cost savings, but not a necessity depending on how you measure value. The value equation of an owner is unique, not transferable to another.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

Here's an excerpt from the current BMW Free Maintenance Program to all new owners.

Exclusions from coverage include the following:
Items reimbursable under your New Vehicle Limited Warranty
Gasoline and diesel fuel
Gasoline and diesel fuel additive
Diesel glow plugs
Diesel particulate filter
Windshield washer additive (except when in conjunction with scheduled maintenance)
Tires, wheel alignment, tire balance and rotation
Parking brake shoes/linings
Reset Tire Pressure Monitor
Wear and tear of soft trim items, such as: seats, carpets, moldings, headliner, door panels and all chrome trim
Damage, including consequential, which results from negligence, improper operation of the vehicle, wear and tear or deterioration due to driving habits or conditions, improper repair, environmental influences, flood, accident or fire damage, road salt corrosion, alteration, installation of non-genuine BMW accessories, or use of improper, poor quality or contaminated fuel
Altered or unreadable Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) or odometer irregularities or vehicles where the true mileage cannot be determined
Maintenance or repair after the vehicle is deemed a total loss
Maintenance or repairs performed by other than an authorized BMW center within the United States or Puerto Rico
'Topping off' low fluids (e.g., engine oil, antifreeze, washer fluid, etc.) except when done in conjunction with a scheduled maintenance or other required maintenance work (as outlined in the customized maintenance checklist printout) that is performed during an applicable Maintenance Program period
Vehicles used in competitive events
Oil changes performed outside the recommended maintenance intervals as indicated by the Condition Based Service
Any other vehicle-specific exclusions described in the Service and Warranty Booklet included with the vehicle

If you look at the oil service indicator light I bet you it won't be going on at 3,000 miles between oil change.

Is your point what is excluded should be included in the warranty?

[upallnight]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Is your point what is excluded should be included in the warranty?

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

I have never heard of that happening but I can see how it could. Is that something that BMW is known to do?

That or a similar disclaimer is in every vehicle warranty I have read. My experience with Dealers is they relish the opportunity to do warranty work rather than see if they can find something that voids the warranty.

[Doru]

Originally Posted by upallnight

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

AFAIK the on-board computer will alter by itself the mileage if there's lot of idling involved - it will get shorter, and BMW will warrant the oil change. However, said oil change will be still long due....

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by upallnight

My point is that if you wanted to change the oil in your car at a different interval then what BMW specify, BMW maintenance program would not cover it. So if BMW schedule is 15,000 miles between oil change and the wife drives the x for short trips and have the car idling for long period of time, that would be considered harsh driving condition, but BMW will not alter their schedule for it.

The BMW SII uses fuel consumption to calculate oil changes.

A vehicle used for short trips/extended idle will show an SII oil change required LONG before 15k miles are traveled.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by trader4

IDK what exactly the BMW system monitors, but in general, I thought that cars with similar systems do monitor a number of driving parameters, including short trips, to determine how soon an oil change is due.

And IDK what data those that say the oil isn't being changed frequently enough are relying on. There are a wide array of opinions. Jiffy Lube will tell you to change oil at 3000, whether it's conventional or synthetic. I think that's nuts and they have no data to back it up. Is going to 15K the best practice? Probably not, even BMW apparently has now reduced it to 10K. Is it based soley on saving BMW the cost of oil changes on the first 100K miles? I don't think so. For example, my Porsche 911 also had a 15K oil change recommendation and it did not have any free oil change program period. The tradeoff of having cars with engines that are shot at just past 100K miles, while saving the small cost of 3 additional oil changes, isn't one that I think a rational manufacturer would make.

I think pushing the oil change interval can have an effect on the life of an engine. But I don't see following the BMW suggested oil change interval being the reason a car needs a new timing chain, new valve seals, has all kinds of leaking gaskets, etc at 100K. There are a lot of other quality related problems with these cars, eg window regulators that break and fall down, CV boots that fail at 3X the rate of other cars, FSR blower resistors that suck, an aux fan from hell, etc. How about that great oil separator design, that when it fails, can trash the whole engine? And most of those things are ones that decent replacement parts could easily fix over the last 14 years, yet we still have the same sucky parts. So, I don't buy that the engine problems are necessarily the result of 15K oil changes.

The newer (post-'06) SII oil monitor system monitors operating temps, dusty condition (with the HVAC auto-recirc dust sensor) and conductivity of oil (dirty/thin oil has a different electrical resistance then clean/new oil).

I change oil at 60% SII oil life (3rd green LED goes out, so does the oil/filter).

I avoid Iffy Lube at all cost, they don't stock BMW filters and fill with non-LL-01 spec bulk oil, sometimes a recycled blend! Seen too many stripped oil pans that they claim "were that way when it came in"!!!

I'm still running OE TC guides at 185k miles, and 3 FSR changes, 2 don't count, went with $40 e-bay FSR that failed in a few mos, returned for exchange and replacement failed too. $130 BMW sourced FSR has worked fine for over 3 yrs now.

[upallnight]

We are all aware of the "Mayo" problem with BMW engines. More frequent oil change would help to diminish the problem, while longer oil change will exacerbate the problem.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by upallnight

We are all aware of the "Mayo" problem with BMW engines. More frequent oil change would help to diminish the problem, while longer oil change will exacerbate the problem.

Yes, Mayo problem is widely known. It is also widely known that, assuming the CCV system is not clogged--that would be covered under warranty, the simple solution is take a drive once in a while that is long enough that the engine gets to operating temp for a period of time. I would expect the dealer to advise the owner to do so when the see it during the oil change. I think it is a reach that the dealer would attempt, let alone be successful, deeming mayo condition as a violation of warranty. It's far more likely they would install the cold weather CCV system and advise the preventative measure mentioned above.

Have you heard of a voided warranty due to the mayo issue. I haven't.