Anyone in Northern California who needs to get there Valve Seals Replaced?

[Doru]

Originally Posted by Mr.Wrong

Speaking of changing the oil to band aid the issue, I've heard that as well from a German Indy shop. Owner said to try 10w50 and it should do the trick. He mentioned they've done that to several cars already and so far so good. Not that something I'd personally do or approve of, but thought this info should be shared.

It will work for only so long, and the result would be even worse, IMHO.

Here is what will happen: If the N62 engine will start smoking, and you fix the problem soon enough, you probably cured it. For good.

If you leave it like that, you might induce another problem. Look at the pic below, where you have the O.E seal with a few months, very little mileage smoking issue, and Elring Klinger seals. The difference is self explanatory



The opening where the valve stem travels is growing bigger and bigger. The next thing will happen, is the valve stem will rub against the guide, and will wear it down. There are quite a few N62 long time smoking engines, where the owner finally decided to fix the problem, and once the engine was taken apart, this issue was obvious. So what happens next, is you need to change the valve stem guides, and pray that the rocker arms are not affected by this. Tolerances are very tiny here.

0.02

[Johnny_5]

Originally Posted by Doru

It will work for only so long, and the result would be even worse, IMHO.

Here is what will happen: If the N62 engine will start smoking, and you fix the problem soon enough, you probably cured it. For good.

If you leave it like that, you might induce another problem. Look at the pic below, where you have the O.E seal with a few months, very little mileage smoking issue, and Elring Klinger seals. The difference is self explanatory



The opening where the valve stem travels is growing bigger and bigger. The next thing will happen, is the valve stem will rub against the guide, and will wear it down. There are quite a few N62 long time smoking engines, where the owner finally decided to fix the problem, and once the engine was taken apart, this issue was obvious. So what happens next, is you need to change the valve stem guides, and pray that the rocker arms are not affected by this. Tolerances are very tiny here.

0.02

Well said!

[BMW_TUNER]

I know that thicker oil is less than ideal I just can not make it happen any sooner than December. I want to limit the amount of oil hitting the cats

[BMW_TUNER]

Any thoughts

[Johnny_5]

Originally Posted by BMW_TUNER

Any thoughts

20-w50 to me seems pretty high! Theres a lot of components, passages, etc on these engines that may cause an issue but maybe others can jump in and give there feedback. If needed try 10w40 some on here stated that its helped with the smoking issue or at least minimized it. That's not a to far off weight from oem specs. Hope that helps.

[McDonaldD]

If your v8 x5 is smoking, after prolonged idle: pull off your air intake and push open your throttle flap. It's wet with oil, no? That's what's causing your smoke.

Valve stem seals cannot EVER leak oil into your intake manifold. If Valve stem seals fail, they can only cause a puff of blue smoke on startup. Why? because oil SLOWLY drips down past the seal and into the combustion chamber. Starting the engine instantly burns off the tiny amount of oil and the heat causes the valve stem seal to swell and re-seal...that's it. Valve stem seals do not and cannot cause smoke after prolonged idling.

Please stop espousing the valve stem seal myth. The only reason the "repair" fixes the smoke issue is because your mechanic has to replace every other sealing surface on the top of your motor. The new gaskets renew your engine's vacuum seal. The EGR system needs a constant vacuum in order pull the PRVs closed. No vacuum? PRVs stay open and oil gets pulled into the intake manifold; causing the clouds of smoke that so many have wrongly attributed to valve stem seals. Properly functioning PRVs prevent oil from being sucked into your intake manifold. No oil in your intake manifold, no possibility of clouds of blue smoke after prolonged idle. It has nothing to do with the valve stem seals, themselves. Doing the same job, Sans valve stem seal replacement, will yield the same result. But, you don't have to do the entire job.

There are numerous other things that can be done that are infinitely easier. start identifying your oil leaks: vacuum pump? Oil pressure sensors? Oil filler cap? Dip stick o-rings? Adhering to BMW's oil recommendation of 0-40w? VANOS o-rings? Fix those issues and then, if necessary, move on to replacing the harder parts: intake manifold gaskets; valve and timing cover gaskets

Just please stop telling people to replace their valve stem seals.

[Helihover]

Originally Posted by McDonaldD

If your v8 x5 is smoking, after prolonged idle: pull off your air intake and push open your throttle flap. It's wet with oil, no? That's what's causing your smoke.

Valve stem seals cannot EVER leak oil into your intake manifold. If Valve stem seals fail, they can only cause a puff of blue smoke on startup. Why? because oil SLOWLY drips down past the seal and into the combustion chamber. Starting the engine instantly burns off the tiny amount of oil and the heat causes the valve stem seal to swell and re-seal...that's it. Valve stem seals do not and cannot cause smoke after prolonged idling.

Please stop espousing the valve stem seal myth. The only reason the "repair" fixes the smoke issue is because your mechanic has to replace every other sealing surface on the top of your motor. The new gaskets renew your engine's vacuum seal. The EGR system needs a constant vacuum in order pull the PRVs closed. No vacuum? PRVs stay open and oil gets pulled into the intake manifold; causing the clouds of smoke that so many have wrongly attributed to valve stem seals. Properly functioning PRVs prevent oil from being sucked into your intake manifold. No oil in your intake manifold, no possibility of clouds of blue smoke after prolonged idle. It has nothing to do with the valve stem seals, themselves. Doing the same job, Sans valve stem seal replacement, will yield the same result. But, you don't have to do the entire job.

There are numerous other things that can be done that are infinitely easier. start identifying your oil leaks: vacuum pump? Oil pressure sensors? Oil filler cap? Dip stick o-rings? Adhering to BMW's oil recommendation of 0-40w? VANOS o-rings? Fix those issues and then, if necessary, move on to replacing the harder parts: intake manifold gaskets; valve and timing cover gaskets

Just please stop telling people to replace their valve stem seals.

Makes sence.

I've seen BMW dealer machanics on this site state bad seals will cause smoke at prolong idle. One even had a way of determining how long before they would last by timing how long it took to produce smoke.

I have seen this twice on my M62. I move it 15 feet to wash it which the cold engine only ran 30 seconds or so. Next start up a little puff of smoke. I believe this was due to cold valve stem seals not up to temp and not sealing so I understand what you are saying. This is the first time I've read an intelegent explanation of the other side of things.

[A B Able Truck]

Originally Posted by McDonaldD

If your v8 x5 is smoking, after prolonged idle: pull off your air intake and push open your throttle flap. It's wet with oil, no? That's what's causing your smoke.

Valve stem seals cannot EVER leak oil into your intake manifold. If Valve stem seals fail, they can only cause a puff of blue smoke on startup. Why? because oil SLOWLY drips down past the seal and into the combustion chamber. Starting the engine instantly burns off the tiny amount of oil and the heat causes the valve stem seal to swell and re-seal...that's it. Valve stem seals do not and cannot cause smoke after prolonged idling.

Please stop espousing the valve stem seal myth. The only reason the "repair" fixes the smoke issue is because your mechanic has to replace every other sealing surface on the top of your motor. The new gaskets renew your engine's vacuum seal. The EGR system needs a constant vacuum in order pull the PRVs closed. No vacuum? PRVs stay open and oil gets pulled into the intake manifold; causing the clouds of smoke that so many have wrongly attributed to valve stem seals. Properly functioning PRVs prevent oil from being sucked into your intake manifold. No oil in your intake manifold, no possibility of clouds of blue smoke after prolonged idle. It has nothing to do with the valve stem seals, themselves. Doing the same job, Sans valve stem seal replacement, will yield the same result. But, you don't have to do the entire job.

There are numerous other things that can be done that are infinitely easier. start identifying your oil leaks: vacuum pump? Oil pressure sensors? Oil filler cap? Dip stick o-rings? Adhering to BMW's oil recommendation of 0-40w? VANOS o-rings? Fix those issues and then, if necessary, move on to replacing the harder parts: intake manifold gaskets; valve and timing cover gaskets

Just please stop telling people to replace their valve stem seals.

Historically, I'm with you all the way. But since AGA has invented their valve stem seal tool, I've had to adjust my repair recommendations in this matter due to the labor cost savings. Yes if there is oil in the intake - that needs to be remedied first. And yes, the crankcase needs to be sealed for the PRVs (CCVs) to worked as designed. But the things to consider are;
- If you're going to replaced your valve cover gaskets, you may as well replace your valve stem seals if this tool is available.
- In theory, the valve stem seals are as the valve cover seals in respect to a sealed crankcase system for proper ventilation function.

[BMW_TUNER]

I have taken apart the intake and seen a heavy film of oil in the intake but no puddles. Is a film a sign that there are other sealing issues or will it be a puddle? My 4.8is gets pretty smokey after extended idle but produces no smoke what so ever at startup no matter the oil weight or temperature.

[Doru]

It's weird, because I had no oil in the throttle body, yet I had HEAVY smoking after more than 2 minutes idling. I also had an unusually high oil consumption.
As A B Able truck said, once you work on those seals, you "normally" would replace every seal....
But there are people who tried mitigating the smoking issue by only changing the VCG and related gaskets/seals, and the end was only a reduced tailpipe smoking result.....
So I guess, there are situations & situations, and not a myth. Good for you if this worked in your case, but I would not encourage people to believe it's only the gaskets & related seals to only find out after doing this job, that the smoking issue persists (and you have now to re-do the job plus another one). I would also not encourage people to think that the valve stem seals are the only issue for a smoking N62 bimmer. The situation has to be diagnosed properly. In my case, it took me a longer time, without using scanners etc (which probably would have expedite the diagnose), but by driving that thing for months and opening up/closing different components and checking the state of them, plus some other random "tree shade mechanic" tests.