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  #1  
Old 11-21-2014, 12:36 AM
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Exclamation Catalytic Conveter Diagnosis HELP!

I've read extensively through the forums but would greatly appreciate some additional input.

The story: I have an '06 X5 3.0. 117k miles. Check engine light came on and I pulled codes P1093 pre cat fuel trim too rich bank2, and P0430, cat converter conversion 2.
Car runs fine, no power issues nor running issues, no sulfur smell, etc. BMW Dealer (Bridgeport, CT) said they were "certain" that it was a Mass Air Flow Sensor... I replaced the MAF, still get check engine light, and same fault codes. Then I replaced the secondary MAF. Same deal, CEL/codes came back. Dealer refused to make good on the bad info... This was initially a PPI, $225, which turned out to be a huge waste of time and money. They missed a TON of stuff and had me chase non existent MAF issues. PS, BMW NA says "they have no control over the service of their dealers." What?!!!

Brought it to a reputable Indi. and they said I had bad 02 sensor, bank2, sensor1 (pre cat). Replaced that $279-(what?!) and still have same codes and CEL. Brought it back, (they were annoyed to see me again), and they said the other 02 sensors are functioning properly. They say its a bad rear Cat. They swapped the rear 02's as a test, and said the wavelengths registering point to a bad rear cat.

I cleared the codes and the car ran for 300 miles w no CEL. I figured I lucked out and escaped a cat replacement. I occasionally get a brief burning smell. (not sulfur) Thoughts? The Indi said all of this was likely from the previous owner burning up a coil that blew the rear cat???

BMW dealer says rear Cat is an 8 HOUR job... That sounds crazy.. Another shop said 3 hours. Another shop said an hour...

Question to any QUALIFIED folks out there is do I replace the 2 rear 02's, and see what happens? Full beans and replace the cat? Or do a smoke test on the vac system, (which the Indi said was a waste of time...?

Any DIY on replacing that rear cat? I saw a previous post that said "remove and replace"... That won't cut it for an explanation. Anyone with a Bentley Manual out there? I see a fairly clear path to get at the rear cat, but the manifold end might be a PITA.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm tired of paying shops $200 at a clip for guessing, and simply throwing parts at this.

Thanks folks!
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:22 AM
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Did you do a search for P1093 error code on this forum? Probably not, because if you did you would have found my posts on how I fixed a P1093 error code on my BM Trouble U. My fix may still cost you $200 for the replacement part plus labor, or if you are a diyer it can be as cheap as 5 to 10 bucks. Do a search on my posts.
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Last edited by upallnight; 11-21-2014 at 06:36 AM.
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Old 11-22-2014, 02:25 PM
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I guess the OP must have fixed his BM Trouble U.

Never came back to this post or website. Some people on this board think I'm too rough on Noobs.
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2006 Infiniti G35
2001 BMW 3.0I E53 X5 Build date 08/2000 SOLD
Lotus Europa 1970 Destroyed by fire
Lotus Europa 1970 S2 Renault Powered
Lotus Type 52 1970 Twincam Webers Powered
PORSCHE 911 Targa 1982 The Garage Queen
Audi Avant donated to Kars for Kids
BMW 525IT Sold
Audi 4000CS Quattro Sold
Jensen Healey Lotus Powered Sold
Opel 1900 Sold
Triumph Spitfire 1971 Sold
Triumph Spitfire 1968 Sold
Plymouth "Cuda" 340 Six pack SOLD

Last edited by upallnight; 11-22-2014 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 11-24-2014, 03:25 PM
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Exclamation P1093 follow up

Hi folks, nope I've got thick skin lol, been in the garage the whole time since practically and studying up...

I took apart the icv, it's dirty but shakes just like you said. Cleaned that. Disa was filty and stinks like gas... cleaned that too... It functions fine and as I saw on an e46 post turning the flap then putting my finger on the vent hole shows it's got vacuum.
Checked all the hoses and all are in shockingly good shape...

The p0430 code is gone (prior to doing any of this).

Only code remaining is p1093.

Took a trip to Bav Auto and bought a lemur bluetooth code scanner.
Looking at the live data the 02's seem fine. Fronts have big voltage swings and are lower voltage, rears are fairly flat w higher voltage. Main thing I was checking was bank 1 and 2 are fairly identical.
That leads me to believe I don't need new 02's, and the shop telling me I need a new rear cat could be mistaken. Thoughts?

I bought this thing recently, and wasn't very confident in the repairs prior to my ownership. They did a aux water pump, aux fan, AC recharge, etc.
I did a coolant expansion tank (leak on top at seem). Hoses all ok.
I now notice a small leak on the lower left at the coolant temp sensor. It seem there are two small square holes on either side. Those weep valves (I assume for blow off) are leaking. I've read that coolant leaks can cause a p1093? Huh?!

Also just did a valve cover gasket. The plastic around the valve cover were filled w oil. I didn't change the plugs yet, nor pull them.

When I pulled the disa looking w a flashlight inside the intake area it too stinks of gas, and is gummed up.

Still no running issues...
Gas mileage is poor(ish) at comb 18. Since the car is new to me I have no reference...

Trying to think logically on this based on good running condition, p0430 code gone, (all by itself), no gas smell, etc. the 02 bank 1 and 2 rear sensor 2 fuel trims are high, 99% on both at 2,509 rpm, at 50 mph, and at idle... Those numbers I'm a bit shaky on understanding...

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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  #5  
Old 11-26-2014, 05:23 PM
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Might be in left field but, what about the gas?

My 4.8 had the P0420 (Post CAT bank 1) SES recently and had to clear it a few times with my scanner. Thought my O2 sensor was going bad as well but, wasn't sure what changed all of the sudden.
Like you, it was running good and no similar issues. The only thing that was a common factor and kinda made sense, was the gas.
Oil companies went from summer blend to winter blend which, I believe contains more ethanol than the summer blend and will jack with our sensors.
So, to help narrow down possibilities I put a half bottle of seafoam in the tank and the other half used for an injector cleaning thru an intake vacuum line (brake booster hose). No more SES, better mileage and that V8 has new life at 182K.

Good Luck!
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:07 PM
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The precat 02 sensor controls the amount of gas being injected into the cylinders. If you have a lean condition it will add fuel and if you have a rich condition it will take away fuel at the injectors.

I'm not aware that you can view the fuel trim from the rear 02 sensors.

I use an App called Torque Pro and can see long term and short term fuel trims on bank 1 and 2. I am also able to view the 02 sensors voltages. The pre cat sensors varies a lot but the post cat sensor shows almost a constant voltage.

The intake manifold shouldn't stink with the smell of gasoline. Seems like you have too much gas in the system. Have you verify what the fuel pressure is at the rail and if the fuel pressure remains once you shut the engine off. You could have leaky injector(s) or a rupture fuel regulator diaphram. The vacuum line from the F connector at the rubber intake bellow could be leaking so the regulator will assume that the throttle is wide open which will cause the computer to operate the injectors in an open position longer.

There are tests for checking if the cats are clogged. Go to Youtube video and check out some of the videos.
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Lotus Europa 1970 S2 Renault Powered
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Audi Avant donated to Kars for Kids
BMW 525IT Sold
Audi 4000CS Quattro Sold
Jensen Healey Lotus Powered Sold
Opel 1900 Sold
Triumph Spitfire 1971 Sold
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Last edited by upallnight; 11-26-2014 at 06:21 PM.
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Old 11-26-2014, 06:31 PM
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I tried a couple rounds of techron, and reluctantly tried CataClean, which is suppose to help cats and fuel injectors. No dice on both as expected.

I'm thinking up all night is into something with the rail pressure check. My lemur scanner from Bav auto also doesn't do rear fuel trims, as it's a closed system, but the voltages seems ok all around. One thing I do notice is that getting on the gas the manifolds sound a little louder than they should, and if I let off the gas at hwy speed the car does feel like there's almost some back pressure. (Then again I have no reference as the cars new to me.) thoughts?

Indi says try a rear bank 2 02 sensor but I think that's a waste given the voltage is ok.
I just stopped in at Bav auto tonight and picked up a fuel filter ( I always change that w any new (used) car I get, and a gas cap, as mine doesn't seem to have much vacuum. I'll s**t if it's the dam gas cap...

I haven't looked yet but will research fuel pressure and I assume there's not a diy on checking at the rail.

Keep you all posted and thanks very much for the help! Have a great thanksgiving. Off to change a fuel filter...
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:08 PM
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Just checked as scanner and long term fuel trim bank 1 is 6.2% and bank2 is 7.0%. ST is around 0 which is correct (Being at idle) .

Also, I cleared the only code still up, p1093, and just drove 250 miles... It shows it as pending but prior it would pop up as a hard code and ses after 5 miles. I cleared it the other day and drove 150 miles and it popped up as a hard code.

Wondering if the fact that code is taking longer to show as a hard code means anything? The car is "healing itself"! I guess the bucket of holy water worked!

Ps, that cataclean treatment popped up a p0430 code for a day. Save your money... Was a for ha ha's try...
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:46 PM
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When you replace the fuel filter don't get the supply and return lines mix up or you'll be having more problems. Also when you remove the vacuum hose see if the hose is wet like there is gas or have a strong gas smell. If you do find this, it means the diaphragm in the regulator has rupture.

Youtube video has several videos on testing the fuel pressure at the fuel rail. Don't tighten the connector down so hard on the shraeder valve and tearing out the shraeder housing like one poster here.
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2001 BMW 3.0I E53 X5 Build date 08/2000 SOLD
Lotus Europa 1970 Destroyed by fire
Lotus Europa 1970 S2 Renault Powered
Lotus Type 52 1970 Twincam Webers Powered
PORSCHE 911 Targa 1982 The Garage Queen
Audi Avant donated to Kars for Kids
BMW 525IT Sold
Audi 4000CS Quattro Sold
Jensen Healey Lotus Powered Sold
Opel 1900 Sold
Triumph Spitfire 1971 Sold
Triumph Spitfire 1968 Sold
Plymouth "Cuda" 340 Six pack SOLD
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2014, 01:36 PM
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Fuel pressure at the rail is fine. Car in position 2 it holds to 3.5 bar, at Idle slightly higher. Turned off for 10 mins holds fine...

Hmm... compression test? (Suggestion of mechanic)...
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