Concerned but optimistic

[Satan1974]

Originally Posted by Wagner

Doubt that is a scientific measurement of issues.

I never claimed it to be. All I know is I paid well over £50,000 for a car that has been in the garage for 3 days (and counting, by the time they get round to working on it again Monday it'll be up to day 6) total since we bought it a couple of months ago.

First time, it took 5 days just to get an appointment because the service department was so busy fixing broken cars. Yesterday, car was towed at around 6pm. BMW got it first thing this morning. They phoned us at 3:30pm to say "we've just got round to looking at it. What seems to be the problem, we can't understand the report that BMW assist left us". They also said "about the tracker you've had fitted, when and where was it done?". "By you, prior to delivery", we said. Tomorrow, we are going to pick up a lovely bottom of the range 320 with cloth seats and manual gearbox. That's going to be great for the school run, not. They also said we could only keep the loan car for a maximum of 4 days, regardless of whether the X5 is fixed by then or not?? My wife took that call but if they ask for the loaner back before the X5 is fixed, I'll be taking it back at the same time as handing them a formal letter rejecting the X5 and asking for a refund.

I am a patient man - honestly - but this is strike 2. After this, if I get one more fault, the car is going back for good. The idea of the X5 was to have a very safe and reliable car which I know my wife and three kids will be safe in. Breaking down is just not acceptable. Breaking down and then not receiving first class service is inexcusable.

I am sure there are many happy X5 owners out there. I was one until a week ago. But now, the good feeling we got of stepping in to the safe reliable X5 has gone and won't return. We will always be doubting whether it's going to break down again, whether something else will go wrong. We planned to take the car to France soon. What happens if we are in the middle of France at night and it doesn't start?? You just don't want that cloud of doubt over your head in a vehicle of this class.

If the X5 was stolen today and we got our insurance paid out, I would not order another one, that is how I feel about it.

Yes this is gut feeling. No it's not scientific. But I couldn't care less - my car is broken - and I hope people reading this realise the X5 is not fit for purpose or ready for production yet. Wait 6 months, or buy something else.

[James Douglas 2007]

Originally Posted by Satan1974

Yes this is gut feeling. No it's not scientific. But I couldn't care less - my car is broken - and I hope people reading this realise the X5 is not fit for purpose or ready for production yet. Wait 6 months, or buy something else.

You said it: your car is broken. The fact that your car (and a few other people's cars, which, judging by the flags, come from all around the world and not just the US) is broken doesn't mean all X5s will be. Your comments aren't going to stop me from getting an X5, or any other car, and they shouldn't. Sharing your experience and disappointment with us is a good thing, but trying to dissuade people from getting the car they want isn't. IMHO, telling us the issues you've had is sufficient, and we should be able to make a decision ourselves without you trying to influence us.

[Satan1974]

Originally Posted by James Douglas 2007

Sharing your experience and disappointment with us is a good thing, but trying to dissuade people from getting the car they want isn't.

I have no problem with people getting the car they want. My problem is people ending up with the car they don't want, e.g., one that ends up in the garage because it's not fit for purpose and substandard and was released too early.

I'm not going to argue any more, like I say the car was superb until it went in to the garage. Many people here know how I feel. Many more I am sure will at some point over their ownership experience. I know that I am talking about the minority, but trust me, being in the minority SUCKS. Any of you that join us will understand, I won't be the last...!

Anyway, stop posting on here and go out and enjoy your lovely E70, whilst ours sits cold and lonely in the garage wondering what it's done wrong like a puppy that you've locked out for pooing on the carpet.

[woody77]

Originally Posted by James Douglas 2007

You said it: your car is broken. The fact that your car (and a few other people's cars, which, judging by the flags, come from all around the world and not just the US) is broken doesn't mean all X5s will be. Your comments aren't going to stop me from getting an X5, or any other car, and they shouldn't. Sharing your experience and disappointment with us is a good thing, but trying to dissuade people from getting the car they want isn't. IMHO, telling us the issues you've had is sufficient, and we should be able to make a decision ourselves without you trying to influence us.

Man, don't take this so personally. After all the purpose of forums, in general, are the free flow of ideas so everyone, owners, non owners, and future owners alike can determine what they may face or enjoy during ownership. I don't own yet, but sure enjoy soaking up experiences from people who do, so when it is time to lay down the money, I'm confident in my decision. Take his experience for what it is...........his experience, then make your own mind up

[jkish]

Originally Posted by James Douglas 2007

You said it: your car is broken. The fact that your car (and a few other people's cars, which, judging by the flags, come from all around the world and not just the US) is broken doesn't mean all X5s will be. Your comments aren't going to stop me from getting an X5, or any other car, and they shouldn't. Sharing your experience and disappointment with us is a good thing, but trying to dissuade people from getting the car they want isn't. IMHO, telling us the issues you've had is sufficient, and we should be able to make a decision ourselves without you trying to influence us.

He has every right to post the whole ugly truth. Everyone can decide on their own how to react. I, for one, want to know the good and the bad before I buy.

[Satan1974]

Glad some of you appreciate my posts for what they are. I will of course update on here the outcome - hopefully it will be a happy result, returning our lovely X5 to it's "pre fault" condition. Obviously the bitterness and slight feeling of doubt on future reliability will never fully go away, and I sincerely hope we don't hit "strike 3" which will force us to return it. I can't think what I could buy that would be a match for the class, space, and refinement. But reliability - I just didn't even consider that when buying the car, I just assumed it would be there.

[drod]

keep in mind... these types of issues are more common than most believe... it is software that manages most of the X5's functions...

these software versions are standard across these models... if one version affects the starter, NAV, camera, etc, there's a great chance it will affect all similarly equipped models... it is merely a question of when...not if...

remember, this is software written by programmers/engineers to provide a certain function (they control NAV, backup camera, keyless entry, suspension, active steering, blah blah blah)

just like writing a program to perform basic add and subtract functions...

if the program takes each "4" and calculates it like if it were a "3" then every calculation involving 4s will be inaccurate...but everything else will be fine...

once a software program has been completed it is then tested to some degree (due to stiff competition and marketing bragging rights) and then uploaded into each vehicle during production.

if you're x5 stalls as a result of some error in the code, quess what, all similarly equipped vehicles are at similar risks..

engineers do not write individual codes for each color/option of vehicle they produce..... it is not practical and there aren't enough engineers in the world to do this!

the fix is usually done by modifying the current production code in order to address a specific issue and then release that as the new firmware version...

as each problem is reported back to BMW these enginers continue to review, modify, and re-introduce new versions. (hence why we have reached ver 29.x from like 20.x when it first came out)

another problem is the fact that these updates take hours to perform and not all vehicles in service will get them....(it may depend on the type of problem reported, the amount of vehicles in service, or the level of customer service you'll be receiving)

now if it's a mechanical issue (like something loose or some physical design flaw that can be fixed with a quick change) that's a different story..

the use of sophisticated software/technology to perform multiple functions in these vehicles is the main problem... but it is the direction this world is going into and unfortunately for all it will continue to become common practice and part of our everyday life...

by the way I'm also a software engineer and I perform similar functions for a living!

[Wagner]

Originally Posted by drod

keep in mind... these types of issues are more common than most believe... it is software that manages most of the X5's functions...

these software versions are standard across these models... if one version affects the starter, NAV, camera, etc, there's a great chance it will affect all similarly equipped models... it is merely a question of when...not if...

remember, this is software written by programmers/engineers to provide a certain function (they control NAV, backup camera, keyless entry, suspension, active steering, blah blah blah)

just like writing a program to perform basic add and subtract functions...

if the program takes each "4" and calculates it like if it were a "3" then every calculation involving 4s will be inaccurate...but everything else will be fine...

once a software program has been completed it is then tested to some degree (due to stiff competition and marketing bragging rights) and then uploaded into each vehicle during production.

if you're x5 stalls as a result of some error in the code, quess what, all similarly equipped vehicles are at similar risks..

engineers do not write individual codes for each color/option of vehicle they produce..... it is not practical and there aren't enough engineers in the world to do this!

the fix is usually done by modifying the current production code in order to address a specific issue and then release that as the new firmware version...

as each problem is reported back to BMW these enginers continue to review, modify, and re-introduce new versions. (hence why we have reached ver 29.x from like 20.x when it first came out)

another problem is the fact that these updates take hours to perform and not all vehicles in service will get them....(it may depend on the type of problem reported, the amount of vehicles in service, or the level of customer service you'll be receiving)

now if it's a mechanical issue (like something loose or some physical design flaw that can be fixed with a quick change) that's a different story..

the use of sophisticated software/technology to perform multiple functions in these vehicles is the main problem... but it is the direction this world is going into and unfortunately for all it will continue to become common practice and part of our everyday life...

by the way I'm also a software engineer and I perform similar functions for a living!

I'm also a SE and agree for the most part. I however don't see these issues as great for the amount of code written to support these vehicles.

[drod]

I hear you man... but when your vehicle stalls and they can't seem to replicate the problem to figure it out, it's a major problem!!!

a mechanical issue is a mechanical issue and usually easier to detect.

software issues come and go like the wind..very difficult to detect and thus very difficult to resolve...this process consumes a lot of time and resources.. if you're lucky they figure it out and fix it...if you're not, they tell you to take her home and contact them if and when it happens again...

the point is... we are stuck with this technology...all vehicles will have similar setups... look around, everyone is doing NAV, backup camera, comfort/keyless start/entry, adaptive suspension, bluetooth, rear DVD, and everything in between...

I've been monitoring other forums and don't see similar problems... why?

they do have some but more from an inconvenience perspective...(ie, bluetooth not working properly, backup camera too dark) but their cars run and remain reliable transportation vehicles...

they probably spend more time on Quality Assurance... they're late in introducing the technology but only because they've been doing their homework!!

BMW really needs to monitor these forums and get more proactive instead of looking to be the first in introducing new "ideas."

final thought... my neighbor and close friend purchased a BMW touring bike w/NAV, bluetooth, and all kinds of bells and whistles... bike looks great and rides great...

he is currently in a legal battle with them after having his bike towed a number of times due to systems issues...

he's now has to think twice before going to far from home...

but he loves his bimmer!! all $25k worth of it!!

is BMW listening????

[Beefy]

I feel Satan1974s frustration and anger, mine is going in now for the 6th time for the oil leak they cannot sort out. Fortunatly they are giving me a replacement in Jan and I will basically just pay for usage from now till then. No one wants to feel like they are going to experience a breakdown. Bmw must get there act together. I must be honest it is so great to drive that I still want it replaced rather than go for something else. The range rover sport was on my mind but probably it would also have issues.