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  #1  
Old 09-05-2007, 09:54 AM
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Concerned but optimistic

I would bet that there are a few, if not more, people on this forum that are waiting for all of the current issues to be worked out before jumping in and buying this SAV. It seems the more I read this and other forums on real world E70 experiences, the more I start looking for other purchase options. I love everthing about this model and want to order one by the end of the year, but am having a difficult time pulling the 70k trigger due to all of the issues current owners are having. I've had a '03 Sequoia for almost 5 trouble free years and want desperately to hear some consistant praise from owners who don't feel like they have a second home at the BMW Service Dept. I want Toyota quality with BMW design and performance. I don't think you should expect anything less when spending this kind of money for a vehicle. I realize all makes have their "dogs" and most vehicles have issues their first year, but it appears this one has had its share. There is nothing wrong with waiting, but it's so hard to do when you're ready for a change. C'mon BMW, don't release the '08's until you sort all of the reoccuring defects out. I can wait, but not forever
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  #2  
Old 09-05-2007, 10:04 AM
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Buy a Lexus if you are overly concerned with the issues you have seen here. E70 issues will be resolved by the FY09 model. BMW doesn't have Asian build quality, never has, and (as with most companies) fixes issues with each new MY not in the interim. From what I've seen here on the E70, its first year bugs are no different then the FY E53 or most other first run Bimmers.
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:21 AM
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My wife has the Lexus and has had zero issues on her '03 first model year GX470. They (BWW) would do well to study the Lexus quality model. BMW has the design and has the performance, but quality is defficient. Increased quality goes a long way when justifying higher pricing. Why should it be "acceptable" to you or any other potential BMW customer to wait 2 or 3 model years for bugs to be worked out? I'm itching to buy this vehicle, but I want proof they can work it out. With all that said, looking at the latest sales data, it doesn't seem to be hurting the bottom line too much.
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner
Buy a Lexus if you are overly concerned with the issues you have seen here. E70 issues will be resolved by the FY09 model. BMW doesn't have Asian build quality, never has, and (as with most companies) fixes issues with each new MY not in the interim. From what I've seen here on the E70, its first year bugs are no different then the FY E53 or most other first run Bimmers.
You know it doesn't have to be that way. Maybe that is the reason the 07 X5 sales for August this year are trailing last year August. I would think they are in the business to sell cars and all these quality issues sure don't help sales. Just my opinion and I have put a lot of miles on Bimmers and I am hesitating also.
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Old 09-05-2007, 10:32 AM
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So are you comparing the sales of the E70 to the E53??

I have yet to own a BMW that didn't have some queer issue, my E46 weatherstripping fell of, my other E46 heated seats burned through, my X5 burned seat and the trans crapped out one day along with a window regulator, my E60 had to have the whole CD replaced along with the sunroof mounts. See I would never trade the driving fun and looks of my BMW's along the way. However, some buyers pick them up only for the Roundel emblem or because they simply have a ton of money and those are usually the ones who complain about BMW 'reliability' IMO, either because it is a 'hassle' or because they can't afford the repair.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:02 AM
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I'm in the same position. I love the looks and the drive of the E70, but since this will be my daily driver, I do not have the paitence to deal with frequent trips to the service department.

I'm OK with the few bugs I've had in my M3, since this is a full on performance car, but the X5 is an SUV and as such BMW should strive to make dependable.

My Land Cruiser has provided me with 5 years and 112,000 miles of completely problem free driving without a single visit to the shop. Last time it was at the dealer was the day I bought it.

The only BMW that ever got close to Toyota reliability was the E46 3-Series. I wish the X5 was just half as reliable.

Anyway, it's a sad day for me. I really like the E70 and have anticipated getting a MY08, but I believe I'll pass and just stick with my M3 for fun on the weekends.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagner
So are you comparing the sales of the E70 to the E53??

I have yet to own a BMW that didn't have some queer issue, my E46 weatherstripping fell of, my other E46 heated seats burned through, my X5 burned seat and the trans crapped out one day along with a window regulator, my E60 had to have the whole CD replaced along with the sunroof mounts. See I would never trade the driving fun and looks of my BMW's along the way. However, some buyers pick them up only for the Roundel emblem or because they simply have a ton of money and those are usually the ones who complain about BMW 'reliability' IMO, either because it is a 'hassle' or because they can't afford the repair.
Amazing how thrilled you are to to own vehicles that all seem to have quality issues.

You don't think someone "with a ton of money" who buys a BMW should not complain about reliability if it has issues?? You are kidding right? A friend of mine bought a $80,000 BMW 650 and he had an issue with water in his headlights. He had to go back to the dealer repeatedly to take care of the issue. There is no way on a vehicle of that caliber and price that he should have problems like that. So in a few years when things start to need to be replaced or break he should sit there and smile because his car looks good and is fun to drive?

Damn right buyers should expect to get a high quality vehicle that does not have anything go wrong with it, anything. Why should owners have to pay exorbitant BMW prices for simple things to break that should last more than 50,000 miles (E53 Transmissions, CV Joints, Boots, Window Regulators, etc....)?? Not only have these issues but sit there and smile and say "I don't care about all of the costly things that have broken on my BMW because I can afford it and my BMW looks good!!"

These are expensive luxury cars that should be designed and built to a high standard. I bet BMW would agree with me on that. Or they could start a new ad campaign:

"Drive a BMW for the fun and the style and suck it up on the repairs!"
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:29 AM
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All of the issues I have experienced w/ my E70 are minor...and they would not prevent me from buying another E70. I love mine and would not own the equaivalent Lexus if you paid me extra.

BTW- this is a forum where owners usually show up to discuss problems, it does not represent the majority of E70's made. Go to the Lexus and Acura forums and read their troubles...its no different.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:43 AM
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To the OP: forums usually tend to overstate problems, since it's the first place owners come to discuss (and moan) about their problems. You will not find a daily thread titled "Today was another excellent day, as usual, in the BMW. All systems worked fine. No problems here".

The E70 is a relatively new model, and every car, regrardless of make or model, has first year bugs. I don't know if you know this, but last year, every Toyota model was affected in some way or some percentage by a recall. Issues ranged from power steering problems (Prius and others) to transmission failures on the Camry to gas pedal issues on the Lexus RX to defective side airbags (like on my friend's tC).

BMWs are far more complex and more reliant on software than their Japanese counterparts. For instance, the automatic gearbox has Adaptive Transmission Control which learns your driving style based on past driving behavior and load while deciding which of 5 different shift maps to use at any given time, based on throttle inputs, braking inputs, g-sensors, yaw angles, and engine temperature. The computer monitors the gas pedal position 200 times per second. It's not just "Drive" or "manual mode" like other automatics.

Yes yes, BMWs overall are not as reliable as Japanese counterparts in general. However, the latter cannot match Teutonic engineering and driving dynamics. By buying BMWs, we basically agree to put up with the occasional hiccup in exchange for something that is fun to drive all the time and never grows old.

There's a 4 yr/50k mile warranty and free scheduled maintenance for 4 yr/50k miles as well. Oil changes, wiper blades, brakes are paid for.
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Old 09-05-2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5FX
All of the issues I have experienced w/ my E70 are minor...and they would not prevent me from buying another E70. I love mine and would not own the equaivalent Lexus if you paid me extra.

BTW- this is a forum where owners usually show up to discuss problems, it does not represent the majority of E70's made. Go to the Lexus and Acura forums and read their troubles...its no different.
"The grass is greener on the other side."

The number of people in this type of forums only represents a small fraction of the actual owners. I only joined this forum a few months ago and it's amazing to find out that there were a lot of complaints on the E53 when I personally had no problems at all for the 3 years that I drove it. The same thing applies for the E70 or any other cars weather BMW, MBZ or Toyotas. There are thousands out there who are happy with their cars and we don't even hear about it. Heck, I did not pursue a lease on a RR Sport because of all the reliability issues that I read but yet, my next door neighbor who owns a 2 year old RR Sport is very happy with his ride.

Just my 2.
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