BMW named Best-of-The-Best in Total Quality Exp. for overall brand and X5

[deutsch100]

Originally Posted by juicer

I am now on my 3rd X5 and have NEVER had a problem with any of the vehicles and I have racked 100,000's kms
I would suggest that if you are that disgruntled and unhappy - sell it and move on, I wouldn't want to be driving around in a vehicle I was that unhappy with.

Well, I'm on my 4th X5. My 2004 X5 4.4i and 4.8is were flawless, and I enjoyed everyday and every drive in them. The 07 and 08 X5 are not as good IMO. I should have known not to buy the 07' one since it was the first batch to arrive at the dealership (with almost every German make, first year models are consumer suicide!). I assumed the 2008 would have been fully de-bugged, my mistake obviously. But still, shame on BMW for releasing this model with so many known problems (I was told by multiple service advisors, that BMW knows the transmission is a problem, they know the rear view camera is horrible, etc...)

[StanF18]

Originally Posted by deutsch100

...with almost every German make, first year models are consumer suicide...

That seems to make sense, for ANY product really. But I don't have enough experience with BMW to assess this statement since I bought the last model year of the E53 (2006), so I went with the tried and tested trim. Can other board members comment on this? Is it truly a good idea to avoid 1st year BMW models and wait for the sophomore year?

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by StanF18

That seems to make sense, for ANY product really. But I don't have enough experience with BMW to assess this statement since I bought the last model year of the E53 (2006), so I went with the tried and tested trim. Can other board members comment on this? Is it truly a good idea to avoid 1st year BMW models and wait for the sophomore year?

Yes.

But it's even better to wait for the Junior year. BMW tends to get the bugs ironed out in the third MY after a product is launched. For some reason BMW is rather slow to respond to most problems, although they did redo the angle of the Z4 instruments, so that people could see them clearly, a few months after the Z4 was launched. That was a quite fast response by BMW standards.

But, IMHO, the third year of a new model is the "sweet spot" for BMWs.

[bmwestcoast]

It amazes me, upon reading this forum, how many people focus on the trivial things. In all honesty I could care less about the electronics. I buy BMW (we own a 530i) for one, simple reason...the driving experience. I love the ride, the sound, the feel of these cars. I'm not too concerned on if the tailgate doesn't close (use your hand), the gas milage sucks (it's a V8...), iDrive (iDontCare), back-up camera (look over shoulder), etc. but ultimately I'm buying it for the ride.

Also, the X3 isn't technically built by BMW at the moment. It was outsourced but will be brought back to BMW and eventually built in the Spartanburg, SC plant when they complete plant expansion. So quality assurance may not be comparable to the X5 in terms in production quality...

Originally Posted by deutsch100

My 2007 3.0si was so bad (from day 1 of ownership), it was returned to BMW (details are not to be discussed, per our legal agreement).

While the 2008 4.8i is better, it is not what I expect from a BMW, espeically a $70,000 model.

i-Drive failures, battery warnings, poor A/C, multiple, various and very frequent warning lights, absurdly poor gas mileage, door locks malfunctioning, auto tailgate randomly stops working, reverse camera is a total joke, no heat reflecting glass, radio/satellite pre-set buttons erase themselves, or re-set to random stations I have never used, date/time erases itself.....

I have spoken with A LOT of new X5 owners, and I know that I am not alone in believing that BMW and the X5 should not score top honors. Sorry.

[Drum]

Originally Posted by bmwestcoast

Also, the X3 isn't technically built by BMW at the moment. So quality assurance may not be comparable to the X5 in terms in production quality...

Or it might be better...

:p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Steyr

D

[bmwestcoast]

If your implying that Magna Steyr makes better cars, I think this list speaks for itself:

• Audi
• Fiat
• 1994–1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee
• Mercedes-Benz M-Class
• Volkswagen Golf Country (1990 - 1991)
• Volkswagen Transporter Syncro (1984 - 1992)
• Bitter SC (1980s)

Current production:

• BMW X3 - 8770 produced in 2003, 34,604 in 2004
• Chrysler Voyager
• Chrysler 300
• Jeep Commander
• Jeep Grand Cherokee
• Mercedes-Benz E-Class 4MATIC - 23624 produced in 2003
• Mercedes-Benz G-Class - 6833 produced in 2003
• Saab 9-3 Cabrio - 9800 produced in 2003

[Drum]

Originally Posted by bmwestcoast

If your implying that Magna Steyr makes better cars, I think this list speaks for itself:

What's your beef with that list? Design or build quality?

I had a Jeep Cherokee that was built in Austria (with a crappy Renault Allience clutch) and it had 175,000 miles on it when I traded it. The only thing it ever needed over all those miles were oil changes, gas and about five replacement clutches.

Otherwise, perhaps it's just snobbery?

[deutsch100]

Originally Posted by bmwestcoast

It amazes me, upon reading this forum, how many people focus on the trivial things. In all honesty I could care less about the electronics. I buy BMW (we own a 530i) for one, simple reason...the driving experience. I love the ride, the sound, the feel of these cars. I'm not too concerned on if the tailgate doesn't close (use your hand), the gas milage sucks (it's a V8...), iDrive (iDontCare), back-up camera (look over shoulder), etc. but ultimately I'm buying it for the ride.

Also, the X3 isn't technically built by BMW at the moment. It was outsourced but will be brought back to BMW and eventually built in the Spartanburg, SC plant when they complete plant expansion. So quality assurance may not be comparable to the X5 in terms in production quality...

If you are happy with crappy electronics and malfunctioning features, then I guess you're a better person, right? Why should these things be acceptable? It's not like we're only dishing out $15,000 for a car. A lot of our X5s are around $70,000 and our 750Li was $90,000. While I agree BMW makes a great performing and handling vehicle, I find it reckless and arrogant of you to just dismiss poorly operating electronic features and options.

[Penguin]

Originally Posted by bmwestcoast

Also, the X3 isn't technically built by BMW at the moment.... So quality assurance may not be comparable to the X5 in terms in production quality...

I wouldn't sell Magna Steyr short on the quailty factor -- their plant got a Gold award, while BMW's Dingolfing, German, plant only got a Silver, back in 2006:

"Magna Steyr, the Graz, Austria, plant that assembles under contract for traditional manufacturers, received the Gold Plant Quality award for Europe. Magna Steyr produces the BMW X3, Mercedes-Benz E-Class/Wagon and the Saab 9-3 Convertible. BMW's Dingolfing, Germany, plant, which produces the BMW 5, 6 and 7 Series, received the Silver Plant Quality award, and Porsche's Valmet, Finland, plant, which produces the Cayman and Boxster, received the Bronze Plant Quality award."


http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArti...rticleID=12111

[Penguin]

I've been out of the Industry for quite a few years, but this is the first I've heard of "Strategic Visions." The "Gold Standard" in the industry was J. D. Power & Associates when I was there.

Anyone in the Industry out there that has an opinion on Strategic Visions vs. JD Power in terms of accuracy, etc?

P.S. Here's the overall J D Power data for 2007 by brand:

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tings-by-brand


And here's the Luxury SUV/SAV comparison:

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tivity-vehicle

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tivity-vehicle

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings...tivity-vehicle