DIESEL: Is the 4k worth it? It depends.....

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by Barcius

I believe both engines has pros and cons depending on the use you will have for your X5: The gasoline V8 showed less vibration when I drove the US spec in the BMW factory, it is more fun to drive in both city and highway and it has that great V8 sound. Choosing between a gas or diesel engine comes down to what you'll do with the X5 and where you live. If you use your X5 like a car, desire quick, quiet acceleration, rarely haul a heavy load, and you don't plan on keeping it past 100,000 miles, you may want to consider the V8 gas engine. However, if you use your X5 for towing, value good fuel economy, and plan on racking up loads of miles, diesel is for you. Also take into consideration the price per gallon of the diesel in the U.S. is still quite high compare to gas. My V8 is averaging 17mpg with a mix 60% city 40% highway. Assuming the diesel makes 26mpg it represents 52% better fuel economy, but the price per gallon of diesel is also 40% more expensive here in Colorado ($2.80/diesel vs. $2.00/premium) so it is only 8% savings or equivalent to say the diesel mpg drops from 26 to 18 miles per gallon in comparable dollars. Not great of a solution in the U.S. as you can see. Good luck with your decision.

You are doing well getting 17mpg. Either, you are a very smooth driver or, you are very light on the throttle. My experience tells me the 4.8 is more like a 15mpg engine and can easily become a 13mpg engine, or worse without too much provocation. The diesel engine doesn't make the X5 into some sort of crude, long-haul truck, best used for towing. The massive bottom end and mid-range thrust makes for plenty of fun and more instantaneous acceleration than the 4.8.

[Barcius]

Originally Posted by Fraser

You are doing well getting 17mpg. Either, you are a very smooth driver or, you are very light on the throttle. My experience tells me the 4.8 is more like a 15mpg engine and can easily become a 13mpg engine, or worse without too much provocation. The diesel engine doesn't make the X5 into some sort of crude, long-haul truck, best used for towing. The massive bottom end and mid-range thrust makes for plenty of fun and more instantaneous acceleration than the 4.8.

You missed my point. I believe, in the US, the diesel does not add to a lot of savings. Price per gallon here is substantially higher than gasoline (the price gap may increase as the economy rebounds) and the fuel economy difference is big, but does not put a lot of $ in your pocket as it may in Australia. Also taken into consideration that here in the US it is not common to have gas stations that sell diesel mainly in city areas. Therefore, in my opinion since I have driven both US diesel spec and the 4.8, the V8 is the winner in this side of the pond. No vibration, smooth as silk, V8 sound, super fast acceleration etc. However, it may have a niche for diesel here if use the X5 primarily for towing and you may want to keep it for more than 100,000 miles since the diesel is well known for its durability.

[MrX]

Originally Posted by Barcius

You missed my point. I believe, in the US, the diesel does not add to a lot of savings. Price per gallon here is substantially higher than gasoline (the price gap may increase as the economy rebounds) and the fuel economy difference is big, but does not put a lot of $ in your pocket as it may in Australia. Also taken into consideration that here in the US it is not common to have gas stations that sell diesel mainly in city areas. Therefore, in my opinion since I have driven both US diesel spec and the 4.8, the V8 is the winner in this side of the pond. No vibration, smooth as silk, V8 sound, super fast acceleration etc. However, it may have a niche for diesel here if use the X5 primarily for towing and you may want to keep it for more than 100,000 miles since the diesel is well known for its durability.

Agree. Here in America diesel will be a niche market. I am not sure why an Australian is trying to understand more about this market than us Americans.

[grover432]

Let's look at it this way. Forget the fuel savings arguement. The 35d will be .5 secs slower to 60 than the 4.8 and cost about $7,500CAD less (assuming a $4,000CAD option cost). It will be $,4,000 more than the 3.0si and 1.0 sec quicker 0 - 60.

BMW tends to price cars by performance, so I think the 35d is a pretty good value, compared to the 4.8. It is reported to have better low end torque than the 4.8 making it great for city driving. Also, given fuel mileage reports from owners of 4.8's that "drive" them, fuel mileage can be as bad as 12 - 13 mpg. Diesels just seem to perform better when pushed than gas engines and with 450 lb. ft of torque, I don't think you'll be pushing the 35d as much as the 4.8.

I'm looking for efficient utility. If I just wanted to go fast, I'd get a 5 series.

[jpl]

Agree 100% in Canada, the diesel price way to high in Quebec, more then other province to make a justifictaion on fuel savings, plus don't forget, it needs that new low sulfur diesel, not the common diesel

[MrX]

Originally Posted by grover432

Let's look at it this way. Forget the fuel savings argument... I'm looking for efficient utility. If I just wanted to go fast, I'd get a 5 series.

Grover. That's great argument.

[MrX]

Just read an interesting article about the future of diesel cars in the US: " As a number of European vehicle manufacturers push ahead with plans to market more diesel cars in the US market, GM's global head of product development Bob Lutz told just-auto that there are significant problems for diesel that will hold back its market penetration there.
"Here's the problem for diesels and, as Europeans [automakers] are about to find out, Euro 5 is much more expensive than Euro 4 and Euro 6 is going to be more expensive still," Lutz said.
Lutz maintains that federal emissions regulations in the US will be expensive for diesel engines to meet.
"In the US we have Bin 5 Tier 2 and that is more severe than Euro 5 and is about the same as Euro 6. So, the emissions hardware required in the US for diesels starting in 2010 is extremely expensive. You will be paying a very substantial price premium even over today's diesels," he said.
"You will have the privilege of paying another $3,000 to get a 20% fuel saving to buy a fuel that is 20% more expensive per gallon than normal pump petrol. You have to start asking yourself, where's the benefit?"
Lutz also pointed out that differential taxation rates helped diesel to take-off in Europe, something that isn't present in the US."

[BBMMWW]

I drive a X5 SD since a few months and i have to say this a fantastic car. This is my first diesel BMW. Until now i only had BMW and all with 6 cylinders petrol engines. I have to admit, i was very sceptical about this engine, but i was wrong: lots of power and acceleration. Here in belgium they sell 95% of the X5 with diesel engines. There is simply no reason to buy a 4.8i (in belgium) unless you really don't care about money. Apart from the engine sound (which is really important for me i have to say) i see no reason to choose the 4.8i over the SD.
Apart from the engine, i'm really impressed by this car: active steering and adpative drive is really impressive.

[motordavid]

Good post, MrX...I had seen versions of that also.
And, back at the Refining Ranch, diesel demand worldwide,
(even with the current oil demand pullback), is on a major
upswing vs. refining ability or, fulfillment.

As I posted before, it will take a great leap, both wallet-wise
and faith in the diesel car process to make diesel cars cost
effective and "work" here in the US, imo.

The upcharge and the perennial fuel cost difference make it
a tough sell for the "average" buyer, imo.
GL,mD

[MrX]

Originally Posted by motordavid

Good post, MrX...I had seen versions of that also.
And, back at the Refining Ranch, diesel demand worldwide,
(even with the current oil demand pullback), is on a major
upswing vs. refining ability or, fulfillment.

As I posted before, it will take a great leap, both wallet-wise
and faith in the diesel car process to make diesel cars cost
effective and "work" here in the US, imo.

The upcharge and the perennial fuel cost difference make it
a tough sell for the "average" buyer, imo.
GL,mD

Agree 100%. The question here is not about the diesel capabilities. It is probably much better than the 3.0si and challenge the V8, but does it work in the US market? The diesel price gap versus gasoline will get wider next year, which will make the better mileage of the diesel probably disappear or worse. I will still drive the diesel when it hit the showrooms, but the V8 seems the logical choice here in the US. Moreover, a discount on a diesel will be probably much less than compared to the V8, which is out much longer since 2007.