DIESEL: Is the 4k worth it? It depends.....

[MrX]

Originally Posted by Fraser

Thanks for the support. I'm not "trying to understand the US market" nor am I trying to predict whether the X5 diesel will be a success in the US. All that will play out in due course.

When diesel power first arrived in the X5 in Australia (in early 2003 in the E53) many people were sceptical that buyers would accept diesel in a luxury vehicle. But the diesel engine, and the subsequent diesels in both the E53 and the E70 (we have now had four generations of diesel engines in the X5 in Australia) have proved a run-away success despite the fact that we pay anywhere between 10% and 25% more for diesel than petrol (it varies all the time). And, like the US, not all fuel stations (especially in the cities) sell diesel. For most diesel buyers it's not simply a matter of relative fuel costs and economy, it comes down to the diesel's superior real-world drivability.

Fraser, I do get your point, but each market is different. I do not know much about the market where you are, but I understand the V8 and the diesel versions of the X5 are much more expensive in Australia compared to the US. Therefore the price of admission is very different. For us on this side of the pond, it is probably a harder choice to make. With regards to the diesel performance versus gas, I am still skeptical about it. It is difficult to imagine that a V8 gasoline will not crush the diesel in real-world drivability. Reading what Barcius posted, he test drove both US spec cars in the factory here in the US and most of the drivers voted for the V8 as the better/superior car in most aspects. I believe BMW took the results and priced the diesel accordingly. I can give you my impression once I drive the diesel. I've been racing for years here is the US so I can give a honest and professional feedback once I drive it.

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by MrX

Fraser, I do get your point, but each market is different. I do not know much about the market where you are, but I understand the V8 and the diesel versions of the X5 are much more expensive in Australia compared to the US. Therefore the price of admission is very different. For us on this side of the pond, it is probably a harder choice to make. With regards to the diesel performance versus gas, I am still skeptical about it. It is difficult to imagine that a V8 gasoline will not crush the diesel in real-world drivability. Reading what Barcius posted, he test drove both US spec cars in the factory here in the US and most of the drivers voted for the V8 as the better/superior car in most aspects. I believe BMW took the results and priced the diesel accordingly. I can give you my impression once I drive the diesel. I've been racing for years here is the US so I can give a honest and professional feedback once I drive it.

I think that everything in Australia is more expensive than the US! Current X5 Aussie pricing is:

3-litre six-cylinder petrol: $86,635
3-litre six-cylinder single-turbo diesel: $88,541
3-litre six-cylinder twin-turbo diesel: $105,490
4.8-litre V8 petrol: $121,908

Aussie dollar is currently worth 65 cents US. Six months ago it was close to parity (97 cents).

As for relative performance between the 4.8 and the twin-turbo diesel, in Aussie spec the 4.8 is 0.7 second faster to 100 kilometres per hour (6.5s v 7.2s) and 0.7 second faster over the standing-start kilometre (26.6s v 27.3s). For your reference, 1 kilometre = 0.62 mile.

However, these figures don't tell the whole story. I've driven both the 4.8 and the 35d back to back over an extended period (not just at a customer clinic) and the V8 simply can't match the diesel's huge bottom-end and mid-range power and needs all the revs that it can muster to see off the diesel. By 1200rpm the diesel is already making more torque than the 4.8 ever produces, and the diesel's peak torque is some 20% better than the 4.8 and is produced from 2000rpm whereas the 4.8's peak torque doesn't come on stream until 3400rpm. As a racer, I'm sure that you will appreciate that performance is not just about peak power, but power spread and power delivery. I can't really comment on Barcius' comments because all my experience has been with the Australian models and your models (both petrol and diesel) may be significantly different.

[MrX]

Originally Posted by Fraser

I think that everything in Australia is more expensive than the US! Current X5 Aussie pricing is:

3-litre six-cylinder petrol: $86,635
3-litre six-cylinder single-turbo diesel: $88,541
3-litre six-cylinder twin-turbo diesel: $105,490
4.8-litre V8 petrol: $121,908

Aussie dollar is currently worth 65 cents US. Six months ago it was close to parity (97 cents).

As for relative performance between the 4.8 and the twin-turbo diesel, in Aussie spec the 4.8 is 0.7 second faster to 100 kilometres per hour (6.5s v 7.2s) and 0.7 second faster over the standing-start kilometre (26.6s v 27.3s). For your reference, 1 kilometre = 0.62 mile.

However, these figures don't tell the whole story. I've driven both the 4.8 and the 35d back to back over an extended period (not just at a customer clinic) and the V8 simply can't match the diesel's huge bottom-end and mid-range power and needs all the revs that it can muster to see off the diesel. By 1200rpm the diesel is already making more torque than the 4.8 ever produces, and the diesel's peak torque is some 20% better than the 4.8 and is produced from 2000rpm whereas the 4.8's peak torque doesn't come on stream until 3400rpm. As a racer, I'm sure that you will appreciate that performance is not just about peak power, but power spread and power delivery. I can't really comment on Barcius' comments because all my experience has been with the Australian models and your models (both petrol and diesel) may be significantly different.

Fraser, thank you for the info. There is a huge difference between the biturbo diesel and the V8 in Australia. Here in the US the difference is approximately only $6K according to the sticker, but can be actually less expensive in real life assuming the dealers are currently heavily discounting the cars in stock. I will take your word about your experience with the diesel versus gasoline. Like I said, it is very hard for me to picture a gasoline BMW V8 engine losing to a diesel, but I will defer the decision after I drive both vehicles. My friend has a V8 with the sport package and the drive is absolutely fantastic. Can not wait to buy one. I drove a 3.0si gasoline at the dealer and it is not the engine I would choose to move this monster. I will keep you posted. It may be true that the US spec is not as good as the Australia one.

[jimsaq]

Originally Posted by MrX

There is a huge difference between the biturbo diesel and the V8 in Australia.

This is kind of off-topic, just offering it simply for info - in AU the bulk of the extra cost in the V8 is due to several extra options being standard. When I was buying my 3.0sd I worked out that if you deducted the cost of the things which are standard on the V8 but are optional on all the other models here, there's only a couple of thousand dollars difference.

Similarly, once I'd specced up my 3.0sd with a bunch of goodies, it came out very close in price to a V8 specced up the same way.