X5 35d - Exhaust fluid

[bigx5er]

Originally Posted by Penguin

I agree 1,000%. It really irks me that they have that stupid MPG gauge instead on the U.S. models, when for approximately the same cost or less they could have had a temperature gauge there, as apparently some markets receive.

I'm annoyed they don't put the temp gauge on the gas versions also in the US. In cold Minnesota, I always use the temp gauge in the winter to tell me when I can drive the car normally, until it warms up, I will baby it a bit.

[darkside4.8]

am currently going through a fight with BMW NA over this fluid. Our 09 had it filled at 10k. now at 14k and need it again. it wont be covered. $227. Free maintenance is more than a little misleading on this car. presumably i'll have to pay this again before i even get it in for the next oil change. how is it that a fully warrented, less than one year old, free-maintenance carrying vehicle that costs $70k will be the reason i get nickel-and-dimed for this fluid? is this troublesome to anyone else? anyomne else fight bmw NA on this?
i'm told it is the weather, type of driving (fast, slow, short, long) that causes this consumption, but last time i checked, i should be able to drive my brand new BMW however the hell i want to without having to worry that it wont start in a few hundred miles.
there was no fair warning on this, now i have an expensive truck, outlandish interest rates, MISSED THE ECO CREDIT because i bought too early, and have to spend 3 hours taking it in for this every 4,000 miles or 4 months. (last in 9/09).
i've been a loyal bmw owner for decades with a score of cars and 4 x5's behind me, but this is the first time i feel truly disheartened by this brand.
$227 is not a huge deal relatively speaking (relative to cost of car, at least) but the principle is ludicrous.
anyone fight this yet? or try to?

[Diesel Guy]

What's the $227 for ? Not just the DEF !

[FunfDreisig]

Originally Posted by darkside4.8

am currently going through a fight with BMW NA over this fluid. Our 09 had it filled at 10k. now at 14k and need it again. it wont be covered. $227. .....

Originally Posted by darkside4.8

fluid plus two hours labor none of which is covered except once every 10k miles or once a year. i made it 4 months 4k miles. ....

How many gallons of DEF were on the paperwork for both of these DEF refills (i.e at 10k and at 14k)?

FWIW unless the passive tank was frozen when they put DEF in at 14k miles, BOTH of these DEF refills should have been at least 5-6 gals. If not, your dealer did not fill both tanks.

Funf Dreisig

[mhoodh]

From the November 11, 2008 BMW diesel live webcast for the press:

Maintenance:
BMW Ultimate Service
Replenishing the Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF)
is a no-cost service for the first 4 years or
50,000 miles

You can access a replay of the webcast at BMW Advanced Diesel
The above statement is on the screen at 7:20 into chapter 3. Also during the FAQ section a question was asked about cost of refill and it was stated that no customer would have to worry about that for 4 years or 50,000 miles.

Hope this helps and you work it out. We have a 2010 X5d and when the time comes I fully expect them to cover the cost of DEF

[darkside4.8]

fluid plus two hours labor none of which is covered except once every 10k miles or once a year.
i made it 4 months 4k miles. unacceptable in my mind. i dont even drive it hard! maybe there should be a disclaimer for us cold climate buyers.

[darkside4.8]

thank you for that info! that will help, i hope...

[mhoodh]

Bad news...either they did not tell the whole story at the press conference or they have changed policy. From

BMW North America

Diesel Exhaust Fluid (DEF)2– drain and refill (only in conjunction with a covered engine oil and filter replacement)

Please let us know what you find out.

[darkside4.8]

well obviously i bought the car using information that came directly from the mouth of the GM of product planning and strategy in 11/08 and then proceeded to place my order IN 2008 for a 2/09 delivery.
who knew that the GM himself doesn't know what he is talking about.

[ard]

1. What they POST on a WEBSITE has no legal bearing. The 'contract' between you (me) and BMW is defined in the documents exchanged at time of purchase: the manual and booklets they provide. They cannot unilaterally change these at other times or locations.

2.Interestingly, the 2010 Service and Warranty Booklet includes the following EXCLUSION:

"DEF changes performed outside the recommended maintenance intervals as indicated by the Service Interval Display"

BMW has gone on to further redefine this.... one could say that "well, my service interval display is saying 'fill the DEF fluid' ". BMW has, outside of this contract further defined this to be "at a regular oil change". At an oil change is different that 'when the car tells you it needs fluid'.... furthermore "Service Interval Display" is NOT a defined term- they make a BIG deal of "Condition Based Service" (CBS), but never define the term used in the DEF exclusion. They explain CBS and how driving more or less will change the interval- OK, live and die by that argument: They cannot say 'we use condition based services, the car will tell you when it needs service, driving harder will use more DEF, driving harder will accelerate the service interval, the car will tell you when to service the DEF, but we will only pay for DEF it it coincides with one of the OTHER condition based service intervals". I'd bet that this would go against them in court, given all their prior statements of coverage via other media- and the sloppiness of the language in the booklet. Note also that a "DEF Change" sounds different than a "DEF refill"...




ANYONE HAVE A 2009 BOOKLET? Darkside, what does you booklet say?

Also, I suspect something is wrong with vehicles that are using excess fluid: a defect that is wasting the fluid. Almost impossible to prove, but I think worth pressing. (Save your reciepts for the settlement in 2 years!)

Finally, you've gotta be crazy to pay BMW to fill it.

A

PS I expect that we will have hacks eventually to both disable the 'no start' interlock and allow running without fluid....