When is 40d coming to US?

[XXX555]

If BMW skipped the 4.0 and brought the tri-turbo 4.5, then they can keep the current E70d as the entry diesel and the 4.5 as the upper end diesel and have a two pony offering. 2012 as a 2013?

[santo]

Originally Posted by bimmer_buachaill

I've been thinking more about this.

What I've picked up so far:
1. The US market is the only location with the old 6 speed diesel for 2011 (maybe Canada too?).

Yes, Canada too.

Originally Posted by bimmer_buachaill

2. The 35d was delayed getting EPA/CARB inspection - I suspect BMW made some last minute changes to cause this, like getting a US emissions surprise on the 40d.

CARB certification happens yearly whether something is new or not (see this site).

Originally Posted by bimmer_buachaill

3. The 40d has better hp, torque and mileage (8 speed transmission).

4. bmw.com (the international site) doesn't even mention the X5 6 speed or 35d anymore. the 35d must be on the way out.

I don't think Europe has a 35d offered to them. They have a 30d and a 40d. The 30d has less hp, torque, mileage than the North American 35d. The 40d has more hp, torque, mileage.

Originally Posted by bimmer_buachaill

I suspect BMW ran into trouble getting the 40d ready for US 2011 launch so changed it out for the 35d for now. The question is - when will they switch to the 40d and make the 2011 35d a less desirable car in the US market. In model year 2012 (September 2011) or some time before then. Seems doable unless they don't want to deal with a mid model year change. Any historical precedent for stuff like this?
Conspiracy theorists apply here.

It's not a question of "trouble" doing it, it's a question of whether it's worth going through the expense of selling it over here. The exact numbers are quoted differently depending on where you are standing but to generalize, 63% of BMWs sold in Europe are diesel (no specific percentage for X5 35d). 30% of X5's in USA are diesel. See BMW Group Diesel Profile.

It's about economics. If it's worth it for BMW to certify and sell 40d's here, is the main question. The 35d created a market segment in North America. Will the 40d split that market segment or will it create a new one? I think BMW AG thinks it is still too early here so it won't come while the 35d is here. IMHO, BMW will be forced to go to the 40d (or 45d?) when they move the full line to an 8-speed transmission (the 40d is the same engine with better tuning and an 8-speed transmission after all) but I'm not sure we will see a 35d and a 40d (or 45d) at the same time in any model year in North America.

According to the BMW Worldwide 2009 Annual Report, world-wide 43% of BMWs are diesel. Europe is 71%, Portugal 95%, France 93%, Italy 91%, Belgium 90% and Germany 63%. USA can't compete at 30% for one model.

Of course, Canada is a smaller market and we just do what you guys so so thanks for that

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by arjuno

LeMansX5 posted somewhere that we won't be getting the 40d. It doesn't take Adblue like the 35d does. Isn't there some talk that we might see the 45d in the US down the line skipping the 40d outright?

The 35d as sold outside of North America doesn't have Adblue. Likewise the 40d as sold in Europe and elsewhere doesn't have Adblue.

My take on BMW sticking with the 35d in North America for the time being is that it's still relatively new in that market whereas the 35d (or the 3.0sd as it was previously called) has been around in non-North American markets for a number of years and was ripe for a replacement.

[anzer]

its not that much of a performance lift over the 35d ... a little more efficient, a little more powerful, a little smoother transmission ..more evolutional than revolutional .....

I think the 45d theory holds up well ... in the US gas is so (relatively) cheap that it will take something special to lift diesel use from current 30% to something like 60% as per Europe ... and offering something like the 35i which is faster and arguably smoother than 35d has probably slowed things down for you guys in terms of market demand for 40d

Even though the US may miss out for now it would be great for the US situation to influence BMW AG to build an almighty diesel version - along the lines of what Audi have started .... e.g. if 45d could pump out 260kw and 700Nm then I'm sure people would convert much more readily from the 35i's and perhaps even 50i's ....

and then there's the whole hybrid debate as things may just start moving more in that direction - and I just can't see a diesel-hybrid world over the next 5 years ?! more gas-hybrid I suspect .. which may slow diesel HP development down and divert R&D in that direction ....

at least in the US you get great pricing and options... so you can turn your X5's over more readily when new models do arrive or you just want to try something different...

[bimmer_buachaill]

V10 diesel was tried by VW but too expensive. Tri-turbo diesel for BMW at prices less than a V8 may prove to be the trick.

[anzer]

anything V10 that's not in the pure sports car arena is just plain dumb IMHO - I'm thinking V8 TT like Range Rover ....I'm sure a BMW 45d with tri-turbo would have to be close to the 50i in performance given the torque it would be able to produce ...the sad part is that the diesels can be heavy - and adding weight to already heavy X5 won't help any ... we'll see.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by anzer

...the sad part is that the diesels can be heavy - and adding weight to already heavy X5 won't help any ... we'll see.

Aluminum block. Not consistent with extended engine life as many expect with a diesel, but designed to address the weight issue.

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by anzer

anything V10 that's not in the pure sports car arena is just plain dumb IMHO - I'm thinking V8 TT like Range Rover ...

So you wouldn't be a big fan of the 1000Nm 6.0-litre V12 twin-turbo diesel in the Audi Q7?

Personally, I can't see how a V8 diesel is okay but a V10 is not. You could argue that all of them are overkill given the sort of performance and economy you can get from a 3.0-litre six-cylinder turbo diesel like the 35d, or any of the 3.0-litre V6 turbo diesels from Audi/VW, Land Rover/Range Rover, Mercedes Benz etc.

[anzer]

can take a good petrol V8 and put twin huffers on it then why can't they do the same with a diesel to provide a really high powered version ... or as you say perhaps they just need to focus on pulling more performance out of the existing 3.0 TT unit ....

when I was driving my 35d around the city today I was booting it in the guts here and there ..and must admit there's a fair bit of noticale lag here and there along with 'boggy delay' when you are in-gear and looking for some push ... even in DS mode - I think the TT unit is not as optimised as it should be ( I thought the whole purpose of TT was to cater for lag and delays at the bottom end and mid range ) ... I'm going to try the 35i and 50i when they arrive to compare ...it alreaady sounds like the 50i has a little lag ..but the 35i sounds on the money in terms of being more relatively lag-free ...

[Fraser]

Originally Posted by anzer

can take a good petrol V8 and put twin huffers on it then why can't they do the same with a diesel to provide a really high powered version ... or as you say perhaps they just need to focus on pulling more performance out of the existing 3.0 TT unit ....

when I was driving my 35d around the city today I was booting it in the guts here and there ..and must admit there's a fair bit of noticale lag here and there along with 'boggy delay' when you are in-gear and looking for some push ... even in DS mode - I think the TT unit is not as optimised as it should be ( I thought the whole purpose of TT was to cater for lag and delays at the bottom end and mid range ) ... I'm going to try the 35i and 50i when they arrive to compare ...it alreaady sounds like the 50i has a little lag ..but the 35i sounds on the money in terms of being more relatively lag-free ...

The 35d already has twin turbos. I suspect that the lag you are experiencing is more to do with the fact that you are asking a 2000kg+ vehicle to respond like a lightweight, which its isn't. My experience with the X6 with the 35i, 50i and 35d engines (Aussie spec) is that the 35i is sweet-as everywhere but can't match the 35d in mid-range punch, nor economy, but if you want real get-go the 50i is the answer.