Help me decide on a new purchase..3.0 or diesel?

[Bill K]

We are looking to get a new X5 as our current '01 3.0 liter is getting up there in age and mileage (180k miles). I know that I like the 3.0 engine but I have always heard good things about the diesels but I know very little about them. I dont want a V8 because of their higher price tag.

Can anyone list the pros and cons of the 3.0 liter v.s. the Diesel? Thanks for any help.

[soldmystang]

i own neither but i have an opinion. first, the 4.8 V8 rocks, but that doesn't enter into this discussion.

typically, a diesel engine will deliver more torque, greater towing capabilities and longer in-service duration. they are somewhat more expensive to maintain as they do require steadfast resolution to maintenance intervals to perform properly. oil and fuel purity being the keys to diesel longevity. basically, change the filters and change the oil.

diesels run on oil pressure, so clean oil is key.

i have a diesel F350. wouldn't trade it for any other pick-up made.

personally, i've been jonesing for a 335D. sadly, the budget will not permit it.

[LeMansX5]

I believe you mean 35i. 30i is discontinued. New 35i has single turbo TwinPower N55 engine with 300hp and 300 torque. Diesel has 265 hp and 425 torque.

[JCL]

Diesels make more mechanical noise (not music, noise) but to some fans it is music. Others call it noise. There is no correct answer to this one.

Diesels are less refined, they are a little coarser with respect to vibration, but some owners like that. They identify with Kenworth drivers. Some owners secretly wish they could have a Mack truck bulldog hood ornament.

Diesels use smelly fuel. This only matters when you fill it up, but it really matters when you spill some on yourself. You may find yourself carrying a pair of gloves for refueling.

BMW dealer technicians in North America don't know much about diesels (but they are learning more every day)

Diesels have more torque, but fewer revs.

Diesels get better mileage.

Purchase price is about a wash. There are credits to offset the higher price, and diesel fuel may be cheaper or more expensive where you live, which either makes it a better deal, or negates any fuel economy advantage. The futurists predict that diesel fuel will rise in price faster than gasoline, due to refinery capacity and higher energy content, but that is more of a guess than science. Time will tell.

It comes down to driving it, and seeing if it is for you. For all the negatives, some people love them, and that is cool. I love diesels, just not mixed together with my BMWs, which I buy in part for the refined engine note. If I was buying a one ton pickup truck, or a generator set, it would absolutely be a diesel.

[CarsRmyVICE]

Originally Posted by JCL

Diesels make more mechanical noise (not music, noise) but to some fans it is music. Others call it noise. There is no correct answer to this one.

Diesels are less refined, they are a little coarser with respect to vibration, but some owners like that. They identify with Kenworth drivers. Some owners secretly wish they could have a Mack truck bulldog hood ornament.

Diesels use smelly fuel. This only matters when you fill it up, but it really matters when you spill some on yourself. You may find yourself carrying a pair of gloves for refueling.

BMW dealer technicians in North America don't know much about diesels (but they are learning more every day)

Diesels have more torque, but fewer revs.

Diesels get better mileage.

Purchase price is about a wash. There are credits to offset the higher price, and diesel fuel may be cheaper or more expensive where you live, which either makes it a better deal, or negates any fuel economy advantage. The futurists predict that diesel fuel will rise in price faster than gasoline, due to refinery capacity and higher energy content, but that is more of a guess than science. Time will tell.

It comes down to driving it, and seeing if it is for you. For all the negatives, some people love them, and that is cool. I love diesels, just not mixed together with my BMWs, which I buy in part for the refined engine note. If I was buying a one ton pickup truck, or a generator set, it would absolutely be a diesel.

Could not agree more. Another sounds write up from jcl.

[nosnoop]

Originally Posted by soldmystang

they are somewhat more expensive to maintain as they do require steadfast resolution to maintenance intervals to perform properly. oil and fuel purity being the keys to diesel longevity. basically, change the filters and change the oil.

Do the service and maintenance intervals differ between diesel and petrol?
And does diesel have more problem in extreme cold weather than petrol?

[bigx5er]

Originally Posted by nosnoop

Do the service and maintenance intervals differ between diesel and petrol?
And does diesel have more problem in extreme cold weather than petrol?

I owned the diesel X5 for a winter in Minnesota. They are fine as long as they are stored in a garage or slightly warm place. If they are parked outside the DEF warnings will appear in very cold weather since the larger tank isn't heated (my SA had customers with this issue). Otherwise I had no issues with the diesel and mine was garaged, so the DEF issue wasn't a concern.

+1 with JCLs explanation. I have a 2011 3.5i now and will post gas mileage results soon. In general the penalty is around 10% overall to go with the 3.5i.

[santo]

I rarely disagree with JCL but some of these comments are generalities.

Originally Posted by JCL

Diesels make more mechanical noise (not music, noise) but to some fans it is music. Others call it noise. There is no correct answer to this one.

In a X5d, you hear some clatter at idle and I have read that BMW actually engineered a little extra engine noise; more so than the other manufacturers. With enough sound insulation (which the X5 has plenty of), you could virtually completely mask the sound. Standing outside of it while it idles or as a driver at idle and getting up to speed you can hear some noise that doesn't exactly sound like a gas engine but it doesn't really sound like clatter either; you have to experience it. You can't hear the diesel at all at any cruising speed. Through a whole passenger experience, I have to answer the same question. "Are you sure this is a diesel?".

Originally Posted by JCL

Diesels are less refined, they are a little coarser with respect to vibration, but some owners like that. They identify with Kenworth drivers. Some owners secretly wish they could have a Mack truck bulldog hood ornament.

Extra vibration doesn't exist in an X5d because it's a diesel. It is as smooth as a gasoline car.

Originally Posted by JCL

Diesels use smelly fuel. This only matters when you fill it up, but it really matters when you spill some on yourself. You may find yourself carrying a pair of gloves for refueling.

Maybe it's just me but I like the smell of diesel better. It's not as pungent and concentrated as gasoline and while I was refilling for the first time, I has to lean over and smell the filler neck just to experience what it smelled like. If you read the forums, you hear a lot about unkempt pumps and pump handles that are covered in diesel. This really isn't the case at regular gas stations. I've gone to a truck stop once and it was a little more unkempt but it still wasn't bad. In this neck of the woods, I just asked for the "car pump" because the truck pumps have larger nozzles. "Spilling some on yourself" may occur if you try to use a truck nozzle in a car like the 35d because it doesn't fit right and if you use the little "nozzle converter" that comes with the car, the pump doesn't shut off automatically. Hence, you're more likely to spill some on yourself. This doesn't happen with car pumps. Car pumps work just like gasoline pumps.

Originally Posted by JCL

BMW dealer technicians in North America don't know much about diesels (but they are learning more every day)

Haven't had service done yet as I'm just over a month but it could be true. Since I read somewhere that diesel X5s are outselling its gasoline counterpart, if this hasn't changed already, it will quickly.

Originally Posted by JCL

Diesels have more torque, but fewer revs.

The low revs were a bit of a surprise. The first week, I was trying to drive very lightly to not hit over 3,000 rpms for break-in and quickly figured out that you won't hit above 3,000 rpms by just driving normally (normal meaning you don't gun it from light to light).

Originally Posted by JCL

Diesels get better mileage.

I am enjoying some excellent gas mileage from a 5,000 lb tank that puts almost all SUVs and many cars to shame. The new 35i is no slouch in this department either though. I haven't seen some real world gas mileage from a 35i but you can take a look at my Fuelly stats for a new 35ds fuel mileage.

BigX5er, maybe you can use Fuelly too so we have a couple of comparisons?

Hope this helps.

[FunfDreisig]

I've read that BMW still makes gasoline powered X5s; I just don't understand why

Seriously, The 35d engine is nearly perfect for our use of an X5: mostly 2 lane country roads, in fairly hilly terrain, with the need to tow serious loads (2+ tons including trailer) fairly frequently. This is where the 35d is at it's best. On the open road at legal speeds (or maybe just above) w/ 2 people and a cargo bay full of groceries, building supplies, etc. with or without a trailer in tow. In this world, the 35d has the performance of the V8 w/ better mpg than the gasoline I6. OTOH the 35d is not a very good fit for primarily short trips, in town, empty (e.g. commuting less than 5 mi.). The diesel just doesn't get good mpg until fully warmed up.

We've had our 35d since last August w/ just over 11,000 trouble free* miles. Despite the DEF angst you'll read about in this and other forums, we have had NO DEF issues - no warnings, no top-up needed, no hassle at the dealer to get it filled right - nothing. The maintenance on the 35d is only slightly more complicated than the 35i because of the DEF. And even this is really only an issue when the 35d is regularly stored at temps below freezing**.

Funf Dreisig

* Our X5 was one of the ones that was built with the early batch of faulty turbo air temp sensors. Because of what I knew about the air temp sensor issue from reading this forum, it was replaced under warranty one morning while my wife drank the dealer's lattes in their massage chair.

** IMO the freezing DEF in the passive tank issue grew way out of proportion last winter, due to owner and dealer inexperience with the DEF system. A $6 bottle of DEF stored above freezing can be used to top up the active tank with about the same level of skill/effort required to top up the windshield washer fluid.

[bigx5er]

I'm still with JCL. The clatter is there at low speeds and up some hills. It is definitely dead quiet at freeway speeds (and smooth), but the low speed clatter was not attractive to me or my wife. That doesn't mean the noise is bad, it's just something that not everyone agrees with.

I still remember the day I was driving away from my health club early on a cold morning. I drove by someone and they stared at my X5 as I drove by. She was surprised by the noise it was making. Call that my own ego problem or image, but these are $60K purchases.

Filling the diesel was fine as long as I could pick the station. On trips it wasn't great and we used the gloves. Again, not a terrible thing, but not something I really wanted to mess with. My wife finally refused to do the fill-ups due to the mess on some pumps.

So I like JCLs balanced way of looking at it. The diesel is a nice engine for the right people. But it won't agree with everyone and that is fine also.

For me it came down to my pure enjoyment and why I buy BMWs. So the 35i has been a perfect fit. A few extra bucks for gas isn't a big deal when you are laying out 60K to buy the thing. So fuel prices between the 35d and 35i are a non-factor for me now.

Again, before I get torched. I'm sure many people will love the 35d and it will attract new buyers to the X5. That is all a good thing for us BMW owners.