X5 BMW Service Recommendation Changes?

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by JCL

The diesels do not appear to be going the same 15,000 mile (approximately) intervals as the gasoline engine models before a service is called for. Several posters report seeing the lights come on quite a bit sooner, in the 10,000 - 12,000 mile range IIRC.

If you do want to pursue it with your dealer, read the SIB that I posted in the link MD gave, above. It states that diesels are not covered by the new policy. There may be a different SIB that does apply to diesel models, I am not sure.

Thanks for all of the info.

My suggestion was not BMW specific regarding recommendations to change your motor oil and filter more regularly will best maintain your engine. I have noted this for the past 40 years or so (when we paid for the oil/filter service).

Even with the advent of synthetic motor oil and better engine manufacturing tolerances, intervals have been extended but not to the 24 months BMW allows. Knowing that the bottom line is always the bottom line to large companies, BMW having to pay less (make more) for greater service intervals seems like quite the biased enticement for BMW's largest market.

While there may be an engine that is pristine in a photo utilizing BMW maintainence intervals, it does not prove or settle my concern that annual maintainence is better than 24 month oil/filter changes. I suggest that the cost benefit ratio of extended/ suggested interval replacement of oil/filter benefits BMW's pockets and not the vehicle owner (in the short term).

Perhaps someone will chime in with more specific mechanical experience or knowledge than I, but wonder what the oil manufacturors (how many times can I misspell that word) recommend for their product. Again, no bias there...

[JCL]

While BMW having to pay less (make more) for greater service intervals may sees like quite the biased enticement for BMW's largest market, if you as an owner then don't follow BMW's recommendations, but instead run 50% longer, and trade the car in, BMW has so little concern that they will turn around and warrant your engine for the full CPO term. The cost of failure of engines (both in repair costs and loss of reputation) in those cases would be far higher than the savings related to the owners who ask for annual oil changes. So, they have already put their money where their mouth is. On top of the warranty costs, BMW holds the lease residual values in many cases. They are the ones at risk. If engines started cratering, lease values would plummet.

I also don't believe you can ask an oil company for a recommendation on how much of their product you should buy. They were part of the 3000 mile change myth that went on for years. They are motivated to have you buy much more. You need to ask the engine manufacturers, as they are the ones who carry the risk. You can analyze the oil during its useful life, and see if it continues to exhibit the properties it needs, and whether it still has sufficient additives, but those tests have been done, and we know that the oil stands up, apart from those applications that can be judged to be severe service.

You mention synthetic oils and better manufacturing tolerances, but in my mind (mech eng here), what is more important is that the sump is twice the size of many others (giving literally twice the interval) and the engines are ultra low emissions, meaning that there are far fewer byproducts of combustion to contaminate the oil. Engines burning cleaner means the oil stays cleaner. You can filter out metallic particles, but you can't replace the additives that are lost to acids which contaminate the oil.

Let us know what your dealer says when you ask him if there is an SIB on annual oil changes that applies to your diesel.

[scollins]

Prior to my X5, I had a 2007 E90 335i. I did low mileage annual oil changes because I was driving between 8,000 and 10,000 miles per year. I did oil changes every 5,000 miles, so it worked out to twice a year:
BMW Dealer - Annual oil change
Indy BMW shop - Interim oil change.

They did not reset the CBS at the low mileage annual oil change, and neither did the Indy shop. The CBS doesn't actually sample the oil, it just uses an algorithm based on how much fuel is used.

The ONLY CBS requested oil change was after 25 months and nearly 19,000 miles!!!!! During those 19,000 miles, I did a BMW CCC and a BMW track day. That and a bunch of spirited drives through the mountains. There is NO WAY that the CBS should have not requested an oil change until 19,000 miles and over 2 years had passed. I don't care how good synthetic oil may be, that is just ludicrous.

Each time, I sent in a sample to Blackstone labs to be analyzed. When the TBN gets around 1.0, the detergents are ineffective and the oil should be changed. The lowest TBN I had was 2.4, with only 3,550 miles on the oil! That oil would have probably protected the engine until it had 7,000 or 8,000 miles on it. But, had I just gone with the CBS interval, that oil likely would have been toast a LONG TIME before.

The last sample I sent it in July had a TBN of 2.7 after 7,231 miles. So it was probably going to make 10,000 to 12,000 miles before it wasn't doing its job. Still, that is less than the factory-estimated 15,000 mile service.

And besides the TBN, the reports also indicated that wear metals were still pretty high, even after 26,000 miles. Not a good indicator for filter life. I think the filter can be changed pretty easily without draining the oil though. So maybe changing just the filter every 5,000 miles or so is a better bet?

Regardless, the X5 isn't going to be a low annual mileage vehicle. But if the CBS doesn't recommend a decent oil change interval, I'm going to have mid-cycle changes done, either by myself or at the indy shop.

[ard]

Originally Posted by XXX555

it has more than 6000 miles...

So you get a change, right?

FORGET about the stupid CBS system. IMO, it is severely lacking: no coolant service interval, no brake fluid interval, no time interval, no fuel filter interval, no transmission fluid interval.

What else does it not track?

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by ard

So you get a change, right?

FORGET about the stupid CBS system. IMO, it is severely lacking: no coolant service interval, no brake fluid interval, no time interval, no fuel filter interval, no transmission fluid interval.

What else does it not track?

Nope, No annual oil and filter change (no DEF flush and fill) until service light comes on...

[Armand]

Originally Posted by XXX555

Nope, No annual oil and filter change (no DEF flush and fill) until service light comes on...

What does your iDrive say about your miles to the next service? I just took my 2010 35d in for the first scheduled service. I had 10,192 miles on it and according to iDrive I had 400 more miles before the first oil change/Diesel service. The SA told me as long as you are under 1000 miles to service, they will take the car in. You don't need to wait until the light comes on.

[XXX555]

Originally Posted by Armand

What does your iDrive say about your miles to the next service? I just took my 2010 35d in for the first scheduled service. I had 10,192 miles on it and according to iDrive I had 400 more miles before the first oil change/Diesel service. The SA told me as long as you are under 1000 miles to service, they will take the car in. You don't need to wait until the light comes on.

Mine says about 3,000 miles to go...

[JCL]

Originally Posted by scollins

The CBS doesn't actually sample the oil, it just uses an algorithm based on how much fuel is used.

Are you sure about that?

http://www.xoutpost.com/763121-post14.html

[ard]

Originally Posted by XXX555

Nope, No annual oil and filter change (no DEF flush and fill) until service light comes on...

The CBS does not keep track of time. So you could conceivable go years without a service.

(Sorry I misread your post about the 6000 miles)

You should point to the documents that came with the car- unless BMW wants to recall the car and modify those documents, those should prevail.

Finally, the DEF should be covered outside of the service interval indicator... BMW has acknowledged their warranty language is weak and will consider on an individual basis. I've posted about this before, but a DEF warning is, in fact, a "CBS indication that maintenance is required", jsut not an oilservice...BMWs interpretation that only DEF with Oilservice is NOT what is in the documents.


I suppose you might find a 12 month period in which you did under 6k?

GL

A

PS If you do an interim oil change, F the dealer...find an indy for it.

[scollins]

Originally Posted by JCL

Are you sure about that?

http://www.xoutpost.com/763121-post14.html

More certain than uncertain. I know you believe that some little widget in the sump is some sort of oil condition analyzer. In that link, you link to another thread where there is some TIS about an oil condition sensor found in N52 engines. Well, none of us have N52 engines, so that really isn't applicable.

And, if there really was a true oil condition sensor, then when I had my N54 powered 335i, would it not have increased the mileage to the next service when I did mid-cycle oil changes? Clearly the condition of my oil varied significantly, even regardless of miles, based on the Blackstone test. MY CBS never did increase the miles, it only counted down. So maybe there is a sensor, but it doesn't work for shit. If the systems are supposed "that smart", why would they suddenly become stupid and not figure out that the oil quality increased?

Also, my comment about the CBS being based mostly on fuel consumption is lifted directly from SIB 12 25 05 where is specifically states: "It is the total fuel consumption, and not the accumulated mileage, which influences when the next oil service will be forecast as due." And since we are talking about the forecast here (the stupid number in the display until the next service), my statement is accurate. The number may count down faster the closer you get to it, per the SIB, but what do we see every time we start the vehicle? The forecasted mileage to the next service of course!

In addition, that SIB was updated in July 2008, and references CBS4 (as well as models E70 and E90, which were introduced in 2007.) So it is current and up to date.

Regardless, based on my experience with the N54 and oil testing, I'll probably do oil changes between 6,000 and 7,000 miles. After a few tests come back, I may extend the interval based on the results. But I have more faith in Blackstone's report than the CBS.

At least with a dipstick, I may be able to pull an oil sample without having to drain the engine. Any one manage to do that?