Speaker level output vs line level output are they the same thing or what?

Rolex Snob · #1 02-28-2007, 11:24 PM

I have to rant here, I can't seem to find any good information on this topic. As a car stereo novice I am trying my best to put some concerns to bed but what plagues the car stereo world is there is a wealth of conflicting and flat out incorrect information out there.

My amp is dead, I want a new one. I am trying to decide on a new one...

My #1 goal, I don't want any converters other than ones built into an amp.

My previous system had PAC-SNI-35 boxes, they are two channels each so I had two of them. They are advertised as LINE OUTPUT Converters; I was told these are for connecting directly to speaker level. An example of a proper installation I would assume is when I am splicing into factory speaker wire off the stock amp/head unit before the speaker itself. This is garbage, why anyone would do this is beyond me.

The reason I was told this was not the solution was because I removed my factory amp and needed to convert directly from the OUTPUTS of the factory head unit directly to the INPUTS of an amp instead of RCA ouputs I had 4 wires that needed to be coverted to RCA (not to be confused with the wires connected to my speakers).

I was told the SVEN4 was the proper device for this, application. The SVEN4 is advertised as a "sound interface device" and from what I understand is meant for converting the actual speaker wire outputs on factory head units to RCA. I am not splicing into the speaker wire that is already going to the speakers.

Now, what confuses the ever living shit out of me is how this is described. I know there is a difference between the two devices (SNI35 & SVEN4) because I have heard it. It is night and day, so I want to make sure this is done right. I will not tolerate gimped sound anymore and want to purchase the correct amp for my situation.

I want my factory speaker wires going to my speakers, I will not touch these. Since my factory head unit amp in my 2002 X5 is disconnected I have 4 output wires (I wont call them speaker wires because this is the main area of confusion for me, I will call them "outputs using wires that are not RCA's"

I know I sound like an idiot, it's because I am. I don't know the fine details needed to survive in the non-ghetto audio world but I have little trust in my local installers because they started out giving me speaker level crap. I hate it, I would rather support terrorism than give another penny for a product like the SNI-35.

Please enlighten me here? Is anything I am saying correct?

Is there is a difference between line level and speaker level?

What amp would you recommend? Please don't say anything that only has RCA inputs because that is not adequate.

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Ken@BSW · #2 03-01-2007, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolex Snob

I have to rant here, I can't seem to find any good information on this topic. As a car stereo novice I am trying my best to put some concerns to bed but what plagues the car stereo world is there is a wealth of conflicting and flat out incorrect information out there.

My amp is dead, I want a new one. I am trying to decide on a new one...

My #1 goal, I don't want any converters other than ones built into an amp.

My previous system had PAC-SNI-35 boxes, they are two channels each so I had two of them. They are advertised as LINE OUTPUT Converters; I was told these are for connecting directly to speaker level. An example of a proper installation I would assume is when I am splicing into factory speaker wire off the stock amp/head unit before the speaker itself. This is garbage, why anyone would do this is beyond me.

The reason I was told this was not the solution was because I removed my factory amp and needed to convert directly from the OUTPUTS of the factory head unit directly to the INPUTS of an amp instead of RCA ouputs I had 4 wires that needed to be coverted to RCA (not to be confused with the wires connected to my speakers).

I was told the SVEN4 was the proper device for this, application. The SVEN4 is advertised as a "sound interface device" and from what I understand is meant for converting the actual speaker wire outputs on factory head units to RCA. I am not splicing into the speaker wire that is already going to the speakers.

Now, what confuses the ever living shit out of me is how this is described. I know there is a difference between the two devices (SNI35 & SVEN4) because I have heard it. It is night and day, so I want to make sure this is done right. I will not tolerate gimped sound anymore and want to purchase the correct amp for my situation.

I want my factory speaker wires going to my speakers, I will not touch these. Since my factory head unit amp in my 2002 X5 is disconnected I have 4 output wires (I wont call them speaker wires because this is the main area of confusion for me, I will call them "outputs using wires that are not RCA's"

I know I sound like an idiot, it's because I am. I don't know the fine details needed to survive in the non-ghetto audio world but I have little trust in my local installers because they started out giving me speaker level crap. I hate it, I would rather support terrorism than give another penny for a product like the SNI-35.

Please enlighten me here? Is anything I am saying correct?

Is there is a difference between line level and speaker level?

What amp would you recommend? Please don't say anything that only has RCA inputs because that is not adequate.

The SVEN4 is a line-output conver, as well as the PAC SNI 35. They both perform the same function. In a BMW, the head unit is only a provider of a stereo signal source. In MOST BMW's, the factory head unit provides a 4 channel audio signal as a balanced input to the factory amp. This is where you would want to be connecting any LOC, if you will be using one.

I completely agree, however, in the quest for the best sound quality, with an appropriate budget, an aftermarket amplifer that can accept a balanced input is the way to go. Unfortunately, that is not in the budget for everybody. If you use an aftermarket amplifier that can accept a balanced signal input (remember, this is the type of source signal that the factory head unit is providing) then you can splice those speaker wires directly from the factory head unit, right into the aftermarket amplifiers inputs. You may or may not need to convert these wires to an RCA, depending on the amplifier used (some aftermarket amplifiers that can accept a balanced input will have speaker-level inputs, allowing you to input those wires directly, others only have RCA connections - the best way to do this is to cut a piece of RCA cable, and splice those wires directly to the speaker wires from the factory head unit).

As far as what amp to recommend, there are dozens of grat amps on the market that accept a balaned input. From JL, to Zapco, etc. What specifically are you looking for in an amplifier? 2 channel, 4 channel, a complete 5 channel amp for your interior speakers and a subwoofer?

Rolex Snob · #3 03-01-2007, 12:44 AM

I am looking for a 4 channel amplifier and a mono amp (for subs). I have pondered the JL 500.5 but I fear it will not offer the power needed for my 10w6v2's and A/D/S 236is comps.

I did not have any problems with my hifonics but I don't have other amps to compare them to.

After further research, I was thinking about just replacing the blown hifonics amplifier I have as a result of my VEN4 (long story) and using an Audio Control 2XS 2-way Electronic Crossover. From what I have read this accepts balanced inputs directly from my BMW factory head unit; I would use this instead of the VEN4 (VEN4 would go in the garbage along with the SNI35).

The install looks fairly straight forward, I would turn off my X-overs on my existing hifonics amps, turn down the gains to minimum and rely on the configuration of the 2XS to provide my RCA signal from the balanced inputs. From what I have read, several posts on other forums state using this to solve the problems with engine whine and SVEN4 devices.

**EDIT: I failed to mention my current system:

1 Hifonics 4 channel amp (Zeus 65x4 rms)
1 Hifonics Brutus 1500W mono amp (currently blown) I think I misconfigured my SVEN4

2 A/D/S 236is components
2 JL Audio 10w6v2

Stock head unit

Bill Valley · #4 03-01-2007, 12:54 AM

If you are pulling out the factory amp the SVEN4 should be perfect. The signal from the factory head unit is and RCA or line level output. The SVEN can be switched from RCA to LOC. A line level signal is will give you better sound quality than a LOC. I purchased the SVEN4 which I am currently using as a LOC to power my sub. I do intend to replace the factory amp (as soon as we get rid of this damn snow) and use the line level signal from the head unit.

Rolex Snob · #5 03-01-2007, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Valley

If you are pulling out the factory amp the SVEN4 should be perfect. The signal from the factory head unit is and RCA or line level output. The SVEN can be switched from RCA to LOC. A line level signal is will give you better sound quality than a LOC. I purchased the SVEN4 which I am currently using as a LOC to power my sub. I do intend to replace the factory amp (as soon as we get rid of this damn snow) and use the line level signal from the head unit.

The SVEN4 just seems so cheaply made, and I have horrible engine whine after installing it. Like I mentioned in my earlier post I saw a definate improvement after switching from the SNI-35; mainly in my highs and imaging. The SNI-35 gave a muffled sound and I noticed my tweeters were just not audible with them which KILLED the sound of my system.

I have tried changing ground locations, adjusting gains, I then extended the SVEN4 about 6 ft to try mounting it in different locations. I also tried three different brands of RCA cables. No matter what I get engine whine; I can't tolerate that.

Ken@BSW · #6 03-01-2007, 02:39 AM

The 2XS is a great unit, however only allows for 2 channels of input, and you will need a RCA cable to give it the balanced iput. It should work good to provide a stereo signal to your amplifier. Keep in mind, though, you will lose front-rear fader control, as this unit only has 2 channels of input (Left & Right).

Unless you feel that you really need the crossover capabilities of an external crossover, I think a product such as the LC6 would suit your needs best. 6 channels of inputs, and 6 chanels of outputs as well (front, rear, & subwoofer). Of course, you know your tastes/ears better than anybody. If your budget allows, you could always step up to a unit such as a 6SX, which will provide 6 inputs/8 outputs, as well as complete crossover functionality.

Bill Valley · #7 03-02-2007, 12:41 AM

I have had great experience with the AudioControl stuff and have used several units. The LC6 was the unit I had considered for my install. I chose the SVEN4 based on recommendations on this board. It is only running my sub right now, but I have no whine issues (a problem I have had to overcome in my previous installs). Have you messed with the adjustments on the SVEN4?

Rolex Snob · #8 03-02-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Valley

I have had great experience with the AudioControl stuff and have used several units. The LC6 was the unit I had considered for my install. I chose the SVEN4 based on recommendations on this board. It is only running my sub right now, but I have no whine issues (a problem I have had to overcome in my previous installs). Have you messed with the adjustments on the SVEN4?

I have but no luck...

What is the "best" way of doing it? Do you max the VEN4 and lower the gains on the amps to minimum?

Bill Valley · #9 03-02-2007, 03:11 PM

Ideally, yes. I had to fiddle with the switches and levels on the SVEN4. I had the switches set how I thought they should be and was not getting good output. I switched the input from wired to RCA and it made a huge difference. I was able to max the output on the SVEN and minimize the gains on my amp.

Rolex Snob · #10 03-03-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Valley

Ideally, yes. I had to fiddle with the switches and levels on the SVEN4. I had the switches set how I thought they should be and was not getting good output. I switched the input from wired to RCA and it made a huge difference. I was able to max the output on the SVEN and minimize the gains on my amp.

What does changing the input from wired to RCA actually do? I assume you had the output set to RCA also?

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