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Quote:

Originally Posted by JBF (Post 1214682)

As I said, you're wasting your time EOD. People this indoctrinated can't be reasoned with, there's no middle ground, you agree with them or you're wrong and deserve to be cancelled.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/D0RvP...giphy.gif&ct=g

I know but for me support and defend the Constitution has always included trying to ge people to see what the Constitution says and means. I am sometimes successful.

In this case it sends me high and to the right when someone makes a statement of.... Your Rights end where mine begin, so you must do something against your will to make me feel safe.[emoji849]

Even Thomas Sowell says "usually" not always so there's a chance. Of course my old SGM used to say "Chance? There's a CHANCE I might shit a gold brick, but I don't think it's going to happen."https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...83a6c3f656.jpg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1214671)

You agree that forcing people to do things against their will is a violation of their Rights, but then you completely dismiss your statement with...
"You won't have to be angry about any COVID mandates if you get vaccinated before they're in place."
Rights have limitations. My comment about COVID and mandates did not imply you should be forced. It meant if you were to get vaccinated on your own before any mandates are in place you wouldn't feel forced.
Amazing that you can be so disingenuous or blind.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...chology-insult

As for the things about books, I chose a book as an example of something enumerated by the Bill of Rights and you felt it was one of my reasons and missed the point.
Every single thing I attributed to laws about a book in that statement is and would be against the Bill of Rights yet if you replace the word book with (firearm) then you would realize that they are already in place and ignorant, asinine laws are already trampling peoples Rights and all because of a little bit of "good" intention by dumbasses who have come to believe that 51% agreement means they can change or even curtail the Rights of the people. What ignorant laws are trampling your rights? Majority rules, sorry. My response was you didn't have a point using the examples you posted. Was I was supposed to extrapolate you were talking about firearms? Why didn't you use it as an example in the first place.

We are not a democracy, we are a Republic.
https://act.represent.us/sign/democracy-republic

I will say that if a mandate forces someone to (in this case) get an experimental vaccine and they suffer damage or death then I would not have any issues whatsoever if got retribution on those who cost them to lose a parent, husband, wife or child.
Hundreds of millions have been vaccinated. It's not experimental. The vaccines were tested and approved by the FDA using the same guidelines as any other drug.
You may think some of those ideas of being forced to do other things is an impossibility but already many countries mandate the abortion of special needs children, marriage, etc.
A lot can be learned from history and what happens in other countries. However, applying them to the US
without studying the circumstances is dangerous. Rather than being constantly angry about the potential of mandates for anything else, I suggest it would be better for your health to address the imaginary horribles if they were to ever become a reality. As for stopping the horrible covid19 with a fatality rate of 1% or less... I am unconcerned about what you do or don't do. During the war on terror 10% of EOD troops were killed and almost the same percentage were wounded so I don't worry about some ultra low odds of death from this. There have been about 7000 soldiers killed since 911--One is too many. It is not about the percentages it is about the number that have died. 10% of the whole 7000 is 700. This discussion is not about you or me and certainly not about what level of risk COVID is meaningful to anyone. I assume you are saying you were an EOD. Over 800,000, just in the US, have died from COVID. Regardless of the odds it is still gambling. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. I hope you win.

After reading your replies I take it back about you getting a refund from Harvard. I believe they should pay you, to never let anyone know you graduated. What is your obsession with Harvard? They don't even have a good football team.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...a0fa1089be.jpg

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Still haven't answered he question---What have you done to help get COVID under control? Doesn't seem like a difficult question. I'm beginning to think you haven't done anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1214704)

I know but for me support and defend the Constitution has always included trying to ge people to see what the Constitution says and means. I am sometimes successful. You are assuming your position is correct. There are scholars that do nothing other than study the constitution and the real world application. They don't all agree.

In this case it sends me high and to the right when someone makes a statement of.... Your Rights end where mine begin, so you must do something against your will to make me feel safe.[emoji849]
I have never said you must do anything. I have said it is not only the patriotic thing to do but also the right thing to do without asking or forcing you to do. It is the sensible thing to do. Why are you afraid of being vaccinated. It's free, it doesn't hurt and it protects you and your loved ones.
Even Thomas Sowell says "usually" not always so there's a chance. Of course my old SGM used to say "Chance? There's a CHANCE I might shit a gold brick, but I don't think it's going to happen."https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...83a6c3f656.jpgI will be happy to acknowledge anything posted that is based on facts or opinions I share.

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Insults devalue ones input and oneself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner (Post 1214748)

Still haven't answered he question---What have you done to help get COVID under control? Doesn't seem like a difficult question. I'm beginning to think you haven't done anything.

I have had covid19 and it was after being in the ICU a week with pneumonia and it was the same as the flu, I stayed at home till I tested clear. Enough done.

What have you done to get chicken pox under control? It too has a less than 1% chance of causing death and is extremely transmissible......

I've also included a handy definition for you below. [emoji106]

As for what you think about me...

My give a shit meter doesn't even register a wiggle. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4ae339ae14.jpg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy (Post 1214797)

That's not an answer. All you are saying is that based on your experience with COVID it is no big deal. You can extend an anecdotal experience to the world if you want but that was not the experience of 800,000 Americans and counting. The question is a simple one to answer--what are you doing to help get COVID under control?

As far as chicken pox--you asked a question and I will give you a direct answer. I had it when I was young. Since then it has become a mandate prior to starting school there. if one has had Chicken Pox a vaccination is not necessary. In the case of COVID it is recommended by the CDC and WHO to be vaccinated including the booster stating natural immunity is not sufficient protection.

FYI, yesterday Trump asked his followers to get vaccinated including the booster shot. Biden will be speaking today about further efforts by the federal government to control the virus.

As I have said, this is not about you, me or anyone else. This is not a competition about who is right or wrong. It is about what information is accurate. We are discussing what should we do as individuals, as part of a country that has a health crisis and what is factual information. I have absolutely nothing against you. My comment that I hope you win the bet against COVID was very sincere.

You didn't answer my question about Harvard. why do you keep doing so? I am sure you can make your point without insults.

The Omicron mutation/variant is an example of some of our discussion. It is much more contagious and therefore affects more of those fully vaccinated and obviously a far greater increase of those not vaccinated.
Studies in New York and Seattle show the unvaccinated are many many more times likely to be affected.

While the early returns suggest Omicron is not as severe and will result in less deaths per infection, the much larger number of infections may result in a high number of deaths even if it is a lower percentage of total cases. Regardless, the current level of infection is increasing the number of businesses, schools etc. that feel it is necessary to close and/or require more stringent protective measures because of Omicron. We are headed away from things becoming normal.

This new mutation is infecting a greater number of children than Delta. Unfortunately, children infected seem to have more permanent issues than adults after recovery.

Because the vaccines are less effective preventing Omicron infection, fully vaccinated is now the two shots and the booster. At least one country is developing a fourth shot.

With the huge number of Omicron cases around the world we can expect other mutations will soon appear. And the Delta variant is still around to add to the complexity.

As a sidebar. The percent of Democrats that have been vaccinated is far greater than that of Republicans. How can one justify politics are more important than individual and public health? Or, that of ones children that have no say in the decision?

This didn't have to happen. All that was necessary was to get vaccinated as soon as it was available to each one of us and follow the guidelines.

bcredliner:

I agree with your assessment.

FYI, Today, Jan. 11th, 2022, Pfizer announced plans to manufacture 50 - 100 million doses of a new omicron-specific version of its COVID-19 vaccine. They acknowledged that their is a growing concern that their and other pharmaceutical companies’ current vaccine formulations most likely need to be tweaked for the new threat of the Omicron variants and those that will follow.

From what I have read, rapid development and manufacturing changes are possible by the mRNA vaccine technology deployed by Moderna, along with Pfizer, with German partner BioNTech. These companies have said it takes about 90 days from genetic sequencing of a new threat to producing a new lipid nanoparticle vaccine containing the updated mRNA payload, which to me, seems like an incredibly rapid time frame for vaccine development.

Therefore, Pfizer is testing hybrid combinations of vaccines to target multiple coronavirus forms, as well as evaluating the effectiveness of larger doses. Pfizer’s PR department say that they hope to have the number of doses noted above, of this new formulation of their COVID-19 vaccine, to be available by late March to early April, 2022.

I consider this to be very good news and will be one of the first in line to receive this latest version of fourth booster shot. We all now know that our immunity to the constantly evolving COVID-19 virus, whether developing antibodies from being vaccinated or being naturally infected, unfortunately wanes over time. So, while there is no guarantee that receiving this booster will prevent one from catching the virus, similar to having received three vaccination shots so far, I do think and hope that it will continue to make me less susceptible to either catching COVID-19. Or, if I do catch the virus, my symptoms will be relatively minor and short lasting.

I speculate and fully anticipate that COVID-19 will now most likely never go away, but will just continue to mutate producing new variants that may possibly be more transmissible and/or more deadly than earlier variants. It now appears that the major pharmaceutical companies will just continue to modify their vaccines in response to the evolving mutations of the virus for quite some time. I would not be surprised if those of us who want to, will be offered and will elect to receive booster shots for the virus every 6-9 months or annually, similar to the regular influenza vaccinations, for many years to come….

I think we all are constantly looking for intelligent, rational, fair, educated voices of people who we can trust and believe for getting accurate and reasonable information on the COVID-19 virus, to assist us in determining and deciding for ourselves what the truth really is.

So for those of you who may be interested, I found this audio podcast to be very interesting and helped me better understand where we are now with the COVID-19 virus pandemic.

Here is a link to a podcast of episode #270 of Sam Harris' "Making Sense" podcast, that is titled:

WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED FROM THE PANDEMIC? - A Conversation with Nicholas Christakis

FYI, Sam B. Harris is an American philosopher, neuroscientist, author, public intellectual and podcast host. His work, communicated via lectures and his podcast, touches on a wide range of topics, including rationality, religion, ethics, free will, neuroscience, meditation, psychedelics, philosophy of mind, politics, terrorism, and artificial intelligence.

Nicholas A. Christakis is a Greek-American sociologist and physician known for his research on social networks and on the socioeconomic, biosocial, and evolutionary determinants of behavior, health, and longevity. He is the Sterling Professor of Social and Natural Science at Yale University, where he directs the Human Nature Lab.

https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/m...m-the-pandemic

Quote:

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG (Post 1215881)

bcredliner:

I agree with your assessment.

FYI, Today, Jan. 11th, 2022, Pfizer announced plans to manufacture 50 - 100 million doses of a new omicron-specific version of its COVID-19 vaccine. They acknowledged that their isa growing concern that their and other pharmaceutical companies’ current vaccine formulations most likely need to be tweaked for the new threat of the Omicron variants and those that will follow.

From what I have read, rapid development and manufacturing changes are possible by the mRNA vaccine technology deployed by Moderna, along with Pfizer, with German partner BioNTech. These companies have said it takes about 90 days from genetic sequencing of a new threat to producing a new lipid nanoparticle vaccine containing the updated mRNA payload, which to me, seems like an incredibly rapid time frame for vaccine development.

Therefore, Pfizer is testing hybrid combinations of vaccines to target multiple coronavirus forms, as well as evaluating the effectiveness of larger doses. Pfizer’s PR department say that they hope to have the number of doses noted above, of this new formulation of their COVID-19 vaccine, to be available by late March to early April, 2022.

I consider this to be very good news and will be one of the first in line to receive this latest version of fourth booster shot. We all now know that our immunity to the constantly evolving COVID-19 virus, whether developing antibodies from being vaccinated or being naturally infected, unfortunately wanes over time. So, while there is no guarantee that receiving this booster will prevent one from catching the virus, similar to having received three vaccination shots so far, I do think and hope that it will continue to make me less susceptible to either catching COVID-19. Or, if I do catch the virus, my symptoms will be relatively minor and short lasting.

I speculate and fully anticipate that COVID-19 will now most likely never go away, but will just continue to mutate producing new variants that may possibly be more transmissible and/or more deadly than earlier variants. It now appears that the major pharmaceutical companies will just continue to modify their vaccines in response to the evolving mutations of the virus for quite some time. I would not be surprised if those of us who want to, will be offered and will elect to receive booster shots for the virus every 6-9 months or annually, similar to the regular influenza vaccinations, for many years to come….

I agree with your points. Covid is not going to go away based on the amount of worldwide resistant to be vaccinated, to follow the guidelines and the misinformation feeding a position of not being vaccinated. We'll just go from one variant to another. Best case scenario is the mutations become less and less severe. Otherwise, Covid mutations will be a form of human natural selection with the core drivers in the US being political affiliation, personal loyalty to the Trump political party and several associated media outlets.

I agree we will need periodic booster shots. I suspect that like flu shots some boosters will be broadly more effective than others.