Gun Topic/Debate

[TiAgX5]

As posted by rm2grow......

"Listen, I've owned an FAL and still own an old Ruger P90. I'm clearly not anti-gun. And like other gun owners, I've enjoyed weekly trips to the range and killing beer cans in MI. The problem is this: I just really thought I could be on a forum...an AUTO forum, for once and not have the "gotta' watch out for them evil gang bangers, keep em loaded boys" kind of conversation. In my opinion, it's usually "code talk" of a bunch of closeted supremacist further perpetuating the idea that "they" are a threat, all the time, everywhere and that dealing with complex societal problems is best done with bullets(hollow points or otherwise). "They" usually meaning "innately violent" people who don't look like us and threaten our "freedoms". There are more than enough places online to voice those opinions...all day friggin' long, if that's what you're into. I chimed in because I'm frustrated that these misguided, simple minded, concepts seem to work their way into just about every conversation these day. I'm tired of it. This isn't a gun or a "survivalist" forum, so not having to hear anymore of the BS, should be a reasonable request. I understand that, somewhat hypocritically, I've just contributed to it and that I've made some assumptions. So, my apologies. Now, how about we just squash this entire GUN and killing conversation and get back to talking, helping each other out, etc. regarding X5's. Pretty please..with a cherry on top. Besides, it seems like we've all got a common enemy - we call them stealerships and I believe that's why this thread was started. "

You have MANY incorrect generalizations in this statement.

The purpose of C carry is protection, not "watching out for them evil gang bangers" and ""They" usually meaning "innately violent" people who don't look like us and threaten our "freedoms".
This is nothing more then profiling. A responsible citizen is not concerned with the appearance of the person posing the threat.

As for the "it's usually "code talk" of a bunch of closeted supremacist further perpetuating the idea that "they" are a threat, all the time, everywhere".
This is nothing more then your definition of those who choose to stand up and protect themselves, loved ones and property from unprovoked infringements on their rights and liberties.

As for "and that dealing with complex societal problems is best done with bullets(hollow points or otherwise)."
Nobody in their right mind can think for a second that complex societal issues can be resolved with deadly force, much less find it the BEST solution!

Glad to clear this up for you.

[TiAgX5]

"Sorry to hear that you have to deal with stuff like that. I understand your position. I guess that’s where we are apart. I don’t believe any of my cars or my wallet is worth someone’s life. And there is a good chance by pulling a gun, things can turn from bad to worse. I totally believe in protecting your home and family but taking lethal weapon to public places is where I disagree with. Anyways, enough chant from me."

In a drive up ATM robbery a few weeks ago in my area, the woman was forced into her trunk at gunpoint and driven around for hours. The vehicle was left with her in the trunk, lucky for her the police got a missing person report, saw vehicle and let her out.

My position on "not worth" having a gun because things can go from bad to worse was changed when I was approached at an ATM at the mall in Westchester, NY. Four people approached as the ATM dispensed money, 3 with knives. Had no escape from the situation and money was demanded, lifting my jacket to show the Beretta 92FS ended the situation (there had been numerous car break-in robberies at the mall, only had the gun on me because I didn't want it stolen from my vehicle, I was at the range prior to the mall).

Only a fool will assume that a person confronting/robbing them while armed will leave them alive at the end of the altercation.

[edogg]

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

The purpose of C carry is protection, not "watching out for them evil gang bangers" and ""They" usually meaning "innately violent" people who don't look like us and threaten our "freedoms".
This is nothing more then profiling. A responsible citizen is not concerned with the appearance of the person posing the threat.

This is exactly right. And sometimes what starts off as a simple "give me your wallet" can escalate even when the victim submits.

Examples:

Man shot during apparent robbery in Tacoma | Crime | The News Tribune

Woman shot during robbery at Vista restaurant - 10News.com KGTV ABC10 San Diego

Often, as in TiAg's story, the would-be victim presenting a gun is enough to deter the bad guy. Bad guys want easy targets. Being ready to defend yourself can make them reconsider their actions.

Another story from a friend. He grew up in a bad area of the city and was visiting family who still lives there. Sitting at a stop light with his daughter strapped into her car seat in the back, a guy walks up with a gun and says "get out of your car". My friend pulls out his revolver and says "no". The bad guy's eyes get huge and he runs away. Then my friend sees another bad guy come out of hiding from behind his car and also run away.

Do you think the bad guys are going to wait around and let my friend take his daughter out of her car seat? Hardly...had he gotten out, not only would his car be gone, but his daughter along with it.

[TiAgX5]

Here's the event that brought "shall issue" gun laws back to TX in '95.

Luby's shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's accounts of law abiding citizens exercising their 2nd amendment right, many were resolved without the firing of the handgun.

Most never made the national news, the media likes to ONLY report stories when it endorses/proves the need for their "gun grabbing/no shall issue" agenda.

Enough incident info to keep someone reading for MONTHS......

American Rifleman | The Armed Citizen®

[Ricky Bobby]

tiag I'm with you brother.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by edogg

This is exactly right. And sometimes what starts off as a simple "give me your wallet" can escalate even when the victim submits.

Examples:

Man shot during apparent robbery in Tacoma | Crime | The News Tribune

Woman shot during robbery at Vista restaurant - 10News.com KGTV ABC10 San Diego

Often, as in TiAg's story, the would-be victim presenting a gun is enough to deter the bad guy. Bad guys want easy targets. Being ready to defend yourself can make them reconsider their actions.

Another story from a friend. He grew up in a bad area of the city and was visiting family who still lives there. Sitting at a stop light with his daughter strapped into her car seat in the back, a guy walks up with a gun and says "get out of your car". My friend pulls out his revolver and says "no". The bad guy's eyes get huge and he runs away. Then my friend sees another bad guy come out of hiding from behind his car and also run away.

Do you think the bad guys are going to wait around and let my friend take his daughter out of her car seat? Hardly...had he gotten out, not only would his car be gone, but his daughter along with it.

We get the carjackings with children in the vehicle all the time here in TX

An interesting FBI/Justice Dept statistic shows the ""watching out for them evil gang bangers" and ""They" usually meaning "innately violent" people who don't look like us and threaten our "freedoms"" as total BS.

Data shows less the 5% (fewer then 1 in 20) shootings of African Americans are done by non-African Americans, while over 15% (more then 3 in 20) shootings of Caucasian Americians are done by non-Caucasian Americians.

With this data, the argument could be made that "profiling/don't look like us" shooting are real, Caucasians are 3 TIMES more likely to be victim of it.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

tiag I'm with you brother.

Thanks RB.

We have 2 bills being reviewed here in TX, looks like open carry of handguns might become legal.

Glad I never went the compact/mini/micro handgun route. I won't need to "dress around" a full size Sig if it passes! When clothes shopping now, my first question is, will the Sig visible outline thru this garment.

I expect to see a spike in Desert Eagle 50AEs sales here in "bigger is better" TX, should the bill pass!

[Ricky Bobby]

Originally Posted by TiAgX5

Thanks RB.

We have 2 bills being reviewed here in TX, looks like open carry of handguns might become legal.

Glad I never went the compact/mini/micro handgun route. I won't need to "dress around" a full size Sig if it passes! When clothes shopping now, my first question is, will the Sig visible outline thru this garment.

I expect to see a spike in Desert Eagle 50AEs sales here in "bigger is better" TX, should the bill pass!

Subscribed with , would be great to hear from you guys in the last frontier of Freedom.

NJ unfortunately will never be a "may issue" state so I can't even get a CCW.

[TiAgX5]

Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby

Subscribed with , would be great to hear from you guys in the last frontier of Freedom.

NJ unfortunately will never be a "may issue" state so I can't even get a CCW.

You guy in the NE are dealing with Blumberg/his millions/his cronies.

They dropped hundreds of millions and STILL couldn't stack the house/senate with "gun grab" goons. All hope is not lost.

[edogg]

Illinois got concealed carry last year because their "no issue" policy was deemed by the US Supreme Court to be incompatible with the 2nd Amendment. Now I think they have a "shall issue" policy after a certain amount of training and a firearm owner ID card.

So there's hope for Jersey if someone wants to fight it.