RE: X5 Unrelated, but Good Information in Times of Need

crystalworks · #1 05-15-2020, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

The virus that affected New York, New Jersey and for the most part America has been traced back to Europe and not China.

Yes, but the other side of the country was traced back to China's strain of the virus. The CDC lists China as the originating country. And even the Mt Sinai study that concluded New York's outbreak was primarily European and domestic strains attributes the original outbreak to China.

I don't get the debate. It's been universally agreed that it originated in China. What has not been agreed on is the circumstances of that origination.

upallnight · #2 05-15-2020, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Yes, but the other side of the country was traced back to China's strain of the virus. The CDC lists China as the originating country. And even the Mt Sinai study that concluded New York's outbreak was primarily European and domestic strains attributes the original outbreak to China.

I don't get the debate. It's been universally agreed that it originated in China. What has not been agreed on is the circumstances of that origination.

The origin of modern man is from Africa. Do you consider yourself African?

crystalworks · #3 05-15-2020, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

The origin of modern man is from Africa. Do you consider yourself African?

Answered that a few pages back. If it pleases you (or a consensus is reached), sure, I'm African. Makes no difference to me as it doesn't change where I was born. Could certainly be confusing though.

And am not sure what that has to do with saying a virus that originated in China, did in fact originate in China.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

If people have saved for a rainy day and not blow through their paychecks every time they got it maybe just maybe they wouldn't be in the financial predicament that they find themselves right now. My immigrant parents taught me that if you can't afford it you don't need it.

Since this is a car forum I have been able to enjoy the sport without having to take out a loan any time I bought a car. The cars may not have been brand new, but at least I didn't go into hock to buy them.

*sarcasm* Are you suggesting people be personally responsible financially? Crazy.

I agree with you, but you can't fault people entirely when they don't have the best examples to go buy. Our gov't runs in the red as often (and deep, it seems) as it likes. Businesses and corps run in the red and are hugely leveraged because interest rates are so low. Hell, the banking industry is a huge part of our GDP. Could you imagine the economic contraction if people and businesses started acting responsibly with their finances?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy

EOD.. I am to the point that, I could give a shit about ANY virus... I am so over this charade!

I think many Americans echo your frustration Happy. Think that's one of the reasons we are seeing protests and frustration with continued mitigation measures. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. People just want to get back to their lives and if they get sick then they get sick. This segment is going to grow the longer their bills go unpaid, or their savings is depleted, or their kids' college funds, or their retirements are threatened.

Unfortunately, insider trading is not a surprise at all. When Congressmen and women does it, it's okay. When Martha Stewart does it, it's a crime.

I told the wife to ignore the 401k for at least the next 2 or 3 years but she pulled it up the other day. Not hit as bad as I thought... but the second, real, crash is coming. I predict the DJI hits <14000.

upallnight · #4 05-15-2020, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Answered that a few pages back. If it pleases you (or a consensus is reached), sure, I'm African. Makes no difference to me as it doesn't change where I was born. Could certainly be confusing though.

And am not sure what that has to do with saying a virus that originated in China, did in fact originate in China.

*sarcasm* Are you suggesting people be personally responsible financially? Crazy.

I agree with you, but you can't fault people entirely when they don't have the best examples to go buy. Our gov't runs in the red as often (and deep, it seems) as it likes. Businesses and corps run in the red and are hugely leveraged because interest rates are so low. Hell, the banking industry is a huge part of our GDP. Could you imagine the economic contraction if people and businesses started acting responsibly with their finances?

The virus may have originated in China eon ago just like human originated in Africa, but the flu that is afflicting the US was traced back to Europe. Why is this so hard to understand. Is it because you rather blame China for this pandemic rather than blame Europe? The Spainish Flu of 1918 did not originate in Spain, but Spain got the "Blame" for the flu because they reported about the flu. Did Europe report about the current flu outbreak or did they suppress the intel? Spain and Italy had a large number of coronavirus cases before the US ban the travel from those country. But by that time it was too late. The virus had already come to the US. We know that China reported about a pneumonia-like outbreak in Wuhan back in January to the WHO.

Yes I am suggesting people be personally responsible financially. This bailout will just put our country into a bigger debt that our children and their children and their children will be stuck with the rest of their lives. They are talking about another 3 Trillion dollar stimulus package on top of the stimulus package that was already passed. The division between the have and have not will only increase.

crystalworks · #5 05-15-2020, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

The virus may have originated in China eon ago just like human originated in Africa, but the flu that is afflicting the US was traced back to Europe. Why is this so hard to understand. Is it because you rather blame China for this pandemic rather than blame Europe?

The European strain mutated from the original. I'm okay blaming wherever it came from. Especially if that country covered up information, hoarded PPE by blocking exports, etc. And China had cases in November. Possibly in October. 2 or 3 months before they notified the WHO. And after denying person to person transmission.

And I still agree with you on personally financial responsibility. And your point about saddling future generations with this debt.

Maruzo · #6 05-15-2020, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

The European strain mutated from the original. I'm okay blaming wherever it came from. Especially if that country covered up information, hoarded PPE by blocking exports, etc. And China had cases in November. Possibly in October. 2 or 3 months before they notified the WHO. And after denying person to person transmission.

And I still agree with you on personally financial responsibility. And your point about saddling future generations with this debt.

The thing about placing blame is, you can’t just blame one party. You have to blame everyone who fxxked up.

There’s plenty of that on both sides of the Pacific. If you have been following the news ( I listen to NPR), I know about the virus in January. The information I got in January has me concerned enough that I started buying N95 masks and sanitizers in that month.

The problem with today’s news is, depending on which channel you subscribe to, you will get different versions, and different emphasis on the same news.

NPR tends to have a more complete view of the facts without any unwanted opinions force fed on you.

upallnight · #7 05-15-2020, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruzo

The thing about placing blame is, you can’t just blame one party. You have to blame everyone who fxxked up.

There’s plenty of that on both sides of the Pacific. If you have been following the news ( I listen to NPR), I know about the virus in January. The information I got in January has me concerned enough that I started buying N95 masks and sanitizers in that month.

The problem with today’s news is, depending on which channel you subscribe to, you will get different versions, and different emphasis on the same news.

NPR tends to have a more complete view of the facts without any unwanted opinions force fed on you.

The news was here as early as January. When I had to meet my kids guidance counselor and my attorney I made it clear to them that I prefer not to shake their hands. They were fine about my concern and we even had a discussion about the pandemic on the other side of the world.

upallnight · #8 05-15-2020, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Answered that a few pages back. If it pleases you (or a consensus is reached), sure, I'm African. Makes no difference to me as it doesn't change where I was born. Could certainly be confusing though.

And am not sure what that has to do with saying a virus that originated in China, did in fact originate in China.

*sarcasm* Are you suggesting people be personally responsible financially? Crazy.

I agree with you, but you can't fault people entirely when they don't have the best examples to go buy. Our gov't runs in the red as often (and deep, it seems) as it likes. Businesses and corps run in the red and are hugely leveraged because interest rates are so low. Hell, the banking industry is a huge part of our GDP. Could you imagine the economic contraction if people and businesses started acting responsibly with their finances?

I think many Americans echo your frustration Happy. Think that's one of the reasons we are seeing protests and frustration with continued mitigation measures. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. People just want to get back to their lives and if they get sick then they get sick. This segment is going to grow the longer their bills go unpaid, or their savings is depleted, or their kids' college funds, or their retirements are threatened.

Unfortunately, insider trading is not a surprise at all. When Congressmen and women does it, it's okay. When Martha Stewart does it, it's a crime.

I told the wife to ignore the 401k for at least the next 2 or 3 years but she pulled it up the other day. Not hit as bad as I thought... but the second, real, crash is coming. I predict the DJI hits <14000.

Martha Stewart was not convicted of insider trading, she was convicted of LYING to the FBI. The same charges that were brought against Michael Flynn and he admitted to but was recently dropped by the DOJ.

crystalworks · #9 05-15-2020, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight

Martha Stewart was not convicted of insider trading, she was convicted of LYING to the FBI. The same charges that were brought against Michael Flynn and he admitted to but was recently dropped by the DOJ.

AFAIK she was charged with securities fraud, instruction, AND lying to the FBI. All in connection with insider trading.

Happy · #10 05-15-2020, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

I think many Americans echo your frustration Happy. Think that's one of the reasons we are seeing protests and frustration with continued mitigation measures. I don't agree with it, but I understand it. People just want to get back to their lives and if they get sick then they get sick. This segment is going to grow the longer their bills go unpaid, or their savings is depleted, or their kids' college funds, or their retirements are threatened.

Unfortunately, insider trading is not a surprise at all. When Congressmen and women does it, it's okay. When Martha Stewart does it, it's a crime.

I told the wife to ignore the 401k for at least the next 2 or 3 years but she pulled it up the other day. Not hit as bad as I thought... but the second, real, crash is coming. I predict the DJI hits <14000.

But my question is, how did they know about the damage the virus was going to before anyone else? How did they even know about the virus?

It’s not so much the insider trading that I am focused on, but the fact that they had possible life saving information. They obviously did not disclose this information. People blame Trump for this every day, but it would seem others had information that could have saved lives as well.

The DJI at 14000, would wipe 8 years of market value and would put us at about 2012. That would not be good!